Idolator

Waters has always been utterly douchetastic. Long before he actually died, Barrett was already turning over in his grave.
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Kind of unfair, actually, since ABBA vs. post-Syd Floyd is more or less a coin flip for me. (At least if the post-Syd Floyd in question is their '71-'77 stuff.)

I wish ABBA had a laser show instead of a fucking Broadway show. Imagine the mindblowing majesty of listening to Super Trouper while being genuinely blinded by lights shining like the sun!

Wow. You guys can't even get your antique irrational classic-rock hatreds right.

David Gilmour is the one that supposedly ruined Pink Floyd after Barrett left. It's not even close to true of course, but that's the tired-ass cliche.

Oh, sweet, misguided Maura. I can feel only sympathy.

@drjimmy11: yes, but he was not the one on stage last night.

@drjimmy11: also, i put in the 'post-syd' caveat because it's the no. 1 caveat used by people to explain away their sympathies for the band. which is fine! but last night's set was just an unending slog.

How exactly does Roger Waters' solo performance detract from the merits of a band that he hasn't been a member of for over a quarter century? This would be like saying that Stone Temple Pilots were horrible because of Velvet Revolver (although contrary to what some on this blog have claimed, STPs were plenty horrible on their own).

Here's an even better poll: Why did Nick Denton unload Idolator?

A. Because its pageviews per post hover around the 500 mark.
B. Because its editors apparently have no appreciation for music history.

Oh wait, those answers are entirely related.

@Elijah-M: because he played mostly pink floyd songs and closed out the night with a performance of 'dark side of the moon'?

and there is a difference between 'music history' and 'hoary overblown crap that i wouldn't have liked if it had been made during this decade, either.'

I'm totally baffled! Why wouldn't you go see Modeselektor? Especially if the deep seeded hatred for Roger Waters you seem to have is real. Believe me, give me ABBA anyday over post Syd Barrett Pink Floyd. But, really give me Modeselektor over any of them. (Well except for Piper At The Gates Of Dawn I suppose?)

god i hate to jump on the classic rock dickhead train but this post was just ridiculous. of course roger waters' sucked last night, but that doesn't take away from his previous accomplishments. meddle is one of the greatest records of all-time and another reason that 1971 was the best year ever for albums.

@moomintroll: more than anything, it was the location -- the tent they were playing in was a disaster zone every time i tried to get within even 50 yards of it, and i figured that the fact that they were the only alternative to waters would only intensify the log jam. (hoping that gets remedied next year.)

So what did the Sean Penn appearances turn out to be?

@whoneedslight: ah, yeah, that. he was gathering people onto a bus "spontaneously," and those who chose to go would be whisked off for a week of volunteerism and ben harper serenades.

I'd personally pick Pink Floyd over ABBA (ABBA's got a timbre I can't take over the long haul). That said, I think the post is right on. It's unwise to go around downing great songwriters with a 30 yr old "death to disco" argument.

please. roger waters' WORST solo album blows away 50% of the crap that gets face time on this blog. Someone who spends so much time thinking and writing about R Kelly, Hanna Montana, and Brittney Spears obviously isn't going to be into Pink Floyd.

If you wanted to focus on old albums, would you even need as immediate a medium as a blog? Just sayin'

@Maura Johnston:

Ouch. Don't people have jobs?

@whoneedslight: the fact that he said 'let's party' for the first time in 28 years was supposed to make them forget about their day-to-day drudgery.

@dog door:
whoa, there. Say what you want about Britney and Hannah, but don't tell me that R. Kelly hasn't written some of the best R&B of the last 20 years.
(not saying he shouldn't be in jail, tho)

Coming from an unapologetic classic rock lover (and q104 listener! OK i apologize for that much), Roger Waters is awful. His work is impenetrably dense and wordy, his voice intensely grating, and he sucked all the creative energy out of his band mates, starting with Dark Side and ending with the unspeakable, unlistenable abomination that is The Final Cut. Gilmour's Floyd and post-floyd solo stuff has been so much better than Waters' that Waters insists on hanging on to play his masterpiece to anyone with $100k to burn just so he can think of himself as Pink Floyd. he should just retire to his beloved golf course, where he can annoy his caddy with his nonsensical, creepy rants.

@janine: really. that's what music magazines are for.

Okay, all the Roger Waters defenders on this thread are seriously making my head spin. Where did you come from, why are you content to parrot the worst classic-rock-loving lunkheads I've met over the years, and when might it occur to you that people have different points of you than your own?

(Points of VIEW, rather. Anyway.)

@Ned Raggett: It's as if they were frozen in amber, preserved for all time, eternal, unchanging and fossilized.

Did you know that rock music is like fascism, thus perhaps causing its practitioners to retreat behind a metaphor? You know, like a door or something?

@Ned Raggett: Are you serious? This post was little more than "I hate Pink Floyd." How that translates to a critique of the music industry, I have no idea.

In any case, you expect people who do have a different point of view to just bow down and play along? Is that how you get a star?

@Ned Raggett: They're just making me laugh! It's like an extracrispy serving of pissy middle-aged defensiveness.

You kids get out of my yard!!!

@Nicolars: Based on the response just now, extracrispy has reached levels Zen koans can't even touch.

The only thing I like about Pink Floyd is that they helped make punk necessary. So did Abba, but at least I can sing along to their songs with my neice.

Also, I sat through Tom Stoppard's "Rock and Roll" and couldn't stop giggling at all the dunderheaded Syd Barrett = "Pan, the God of Hedonism" references. If it wasn't for the bizarre chance to see a Broadway tribute to the Plastic People of the Universive, I would have pissed myself laughing.

Now you've done it, Maura. As I learned back at the college newspaper, there's no troll like a post-Syd Pink Floyd troll. If you dare insult their idol(s), they will accuse you of having no taste and stupid to boot.

It's only a matter of time before Waters and Ron Paul join forces for the most annoying troll tag-team of all time.

@Clevertrousers: Funny thing is, now I'm kind of waiting for something to save us from punk. One more CBGB's coffee table book and people are gonna pay.

No, really. Can we please talk about how awesome ABBA are? Their third album could totally kick the ass of any stupid Pink Floyd record regardless of who was on it. Hell, just Hey Hey Helen's better than the entire PF catalog--COMBINED. Bang-A-Boomerang? Could kick The Wall's ass.

Sorry. I really had to say that, though.

@natepatrin: I thought John Varvatos saved us from Punk?

@bcapirigi: I couldn't agree more. Also, "Fernando" managed to say more about the emotional politics of Latin American cold war politcal turmoil than all six frickin' sides of Sandinista!

@Maura Johnston: So if I see the Rolling Stones today, and they do a bunch of Rolling Stones songs, and they suck, does that mean that the records they were making 40 years ago also sucked? You tell me. You're obviously a lot smarter than I am. I mean, you chose to spend two hours listening to a bunch of music that you don't even like. You obviously understand this stuff on a much deeper level than I.

There are many compelling ways to talk about what a self-absorbed, pretentious dickhead Roger Waters is. "ABBA, who I like, is better than Pink Floyd, who I hate" is not one of them.

@bcapirigi: Now see, I could understand ABBA having a lot of indignant and angry mangroupies because they are fantastic. But Roger Waters? Really?

@Nicolars: I think it has a lot more to do with Pink Floyd than with Roger Waters. From what I understand, when he performs live, he tends to drag the Pink Floyd songs down to the quality level of his solo output, which is universally horrible.

@King of Pants: If that Jurassic Park metaphor is pushed, does that make Wolfmother some sort of hermaphroditic frog?

My point is that the offhand abba dis pretty much summed up everything I've disliked about the band since I first heard them long ago. I find them really ponderous and impenetrable and I don't see why waters had to go out of his way to mock a band with actual hooks and choruses. Even if it was motivated by jealousy (oh no I didn't!!) it was a cheap shot, and since so many of you seem angered by the one that I apparently sent his way, why cant I be annoyed for similar reasons? Turnabout, fair play, etc.

Ps I'm typing this on my phone so forgive any typos.

@Maura Johnston: Because your cheap shot is significantly less clever than his; and it's not like he set the bar high.

Next up on Idolator: "Tool: not all they're cracked up to be" and "Radiohead: Really?"

I voted for ABBA only because I find them just slightly less unlistenable than Pink Floyd.

@Charlie Kerfelds Jetsons Tee: Dude, that's Idolator every day! On the very long list of bands Idolator hates: Pink Floyd, The Doors, Nine Inch Nails, Angels & Airwaves, Muse (?!), Coldplay, etc, etc etc.

I've been reading this blog for nearly two years and I can only name two artists that Idolator genuinely likes: Prince (as of this morning) and Kanye Fucking West.

It just seems like pissing off your potential readership is probably not the best way to sustain an audience. Also, why the fuck are you people in music journalism?

@extracrispy: you do know that multiple people have written for the site, right? Apparently not because I've never dissed NIN once.

I mean. I talk about bands I like a lot. But apparently our tastes don't overlap. Which, you know, happens, but it certainly doesn't mean that I hate music on the whole. Maybe the disses (and perceived disses) stick out to you more?

@Maura Johnston: Uh, you're the editor. Or did Jess Harvell slip the "everything sucks but Kanye" tone by you while you were listening to your ABBA records?

If you wrote about things you actually liked, I'd probably stop reading. So please, by all means, keep the hate coming. It's far more interesting than mindless praise of the latest Hipsters In Sweaters album.

And come on, all those bands crispy listed do suck except Floyd, who half sucks, half dominates, and NIN who are respectable but not my cup of tea. And if you can't see a common thread between the bombastic, downright maniacal Roger Waters lyrics and the pseudo-spiritual babble of Jim Morrison, you should try looking harder. Let me guess - Maura also hates (or dislikes, to put it in friendlier terms) Genesis, correct? HOW DARE YOU NOT LIKE THE BANDS THAT I LIKE! I am so going to start a thread on Classic Rock Magazine's forum telling them to stop coming here for the latest analysis of Roger Waters, Phil Collins and other dead or dead for all intents and purposes artists.

Oh, sweet lord. Are you implying that Maura should edit her writers opinion pieces so that they jibe with hers? I've never seen the woman in person, but I'm pretty sure that she doesn't look Jann Wenner editing a Hootie review. Why should I take your opinions on music writing seriously?

Also, are you implying that The Doors, Angels & Airwaves, and Coldplay aren't overrated?

@extracrispy: I don't dictate my writers' taste. And I guess you missed the past few days' praise of the breeders, santogold, portishead, kraftwerk, and the band that I praised at the end of this post. Or does that not matter since you don't like those bands? Just checking.

@extracrispy: If you think that's a burn, you've been listening to Roger Waters for too long.

@extracrispy: I've been reading this blog for nearly two years and I can only name two artists that Idolator genuinely likes

I fully believe this is as much as you can remember.

I voted for post-Syd era Floyd, but it's really a "lesser of two" situation for me.

Had you said Erasure, or even closer just a mix of vintage discopop - I'd take that over Waters in a heartbeat. Or ABBA as heard on The JAMs' "1987." That'd do nicely.

As far as Idolator goes, this place has been great. As for these - what do the kids call them nowadays - haters? I say balderdash!

@JohnDoe: R. Kelly hasn't written some of the best R&B of the last 20 years.

@Chris N.:

I guess you just haven't been paying attention

@KinetiQ: Actually it just occurred to me that I'd probably listen to a loop of "It's Raining Men" equal to the length of Waters' set. If anyone wants to set that up, let me know.

Also: when you take dense psychy prog and add hooks and grandiose song writing, you get Peter Gabriel which is just awesome. I just found the "Secret World Live" album again recently and it's uh... yeah, k, I'll shut up.

@Maura Johnston: I'm not suggesting you dictate anyone's tastes. But as the editor, you set the tone. And an "everything sucks" attitude permeates Idolator. I can only assume it was born of the Gawker Media missive to point out at least one negative thing in every post.

As for the bands you mention, I happen to like 4 of the 5. I spent the last hour viewing Portishead clips on YouTube. Your post about Portishead, if I recall, turned into a rant against airplane advertising and didn't even bother to mention a single track they performed. How was "Machine Gun" live? It looked pretty fierce from the tiny clip I saw. Your post about the Breeders began with a dig at Lilith Fair. Does your opinion of Sarah McLachlan change now that Prince has deemed her cool?

So no, I didn't bother commenting on those posts.

Portishead? Sucks. Kraftwerk? Sucks. Santogold? Sucks. The band you praised at the end of this post? Sucks. I demand that you stop writing about all these sucky bands immediately, and stick to the two topics we can all love: Jonas Brothers fan fiction and Rick Rolling.

@extracrispy way to change the argument's parameters midstream. And for someone who's been reading idolator for so long, you seem to have forgotten why I have a distaste for Lilith fair. It has nothing to do with Sarah and everything to do with the idea of solidifying what a woman in rock can be, I.e. Only a singer.

@extracrispy: Um, I don't like these bands either: The Doors, Nine Inch Nails (well, lately), Angels & Airwaves, Muse (?!), Coldplay, etc. I think Muse is terrible. I sent the ?! back to you.

@KinetiQ: I loved the Secret World Live tour, AND one time, my band listened to It's Raining Men on a loop for three hours in the van to stay awake. True story. It stopped sounding like music at all after a while. In fact, I feel like I know the song LESS now.

@JohnDoe: Have too.

My longstanding theory is that white people think R. Kelly must be a genius because he's so weird.

@extracrispy: Please. Idolator is full of praise. When you attempt to call the site on its "everything sucks" attitude, it's clear you're just sore because their own favorites are being criticized. It's a sign of insecurity.

But hey! Two solutions for you. #1: Turn off the Internet and it all goes away. #2: Start your own website (try GoDaddy or Blogger).

Woah, woah..why would you read a blog for two years if you disagree with 90% of its output? Where else can you read about the KLF and Jonas Brothers fanvids on the same blog? Don't blame Maura for saying something we all secretly know is true but are too scared to say, it's 2008 people! (Maura, I even forgive you for missing Modeselektor so you could shine a light on this Roger Waters paradox)

Actually, one of the reasons I like Idolator so much is that it *isn't* gratuitously snarky (OK, not most of the time) for the sake of generating traffic (in sharp contrast to other Gawker sites -- maybe that's why it was sold?), and Maura and others actually seem to care greatly about the music they write about (whether they're praising or dissing).

And yes, anything that punctures the pretensions of classic rock dickheads, indie dickheads, and gives some lip service to what's on the radio, is A-OK in my book. Not that I'm sucking up or anything like that.

@mike a: I do have my own website. We've logged 6.1 million pageviews so far today. Great suggestion though. Very helpful. We haven't tried the "running off your audience" tactic.

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