Comments on: Questions, Questions http://idolator.com/388457/questions-questions Music News, Reviews, and Gossip on Idolator.com Sat, 11 Feb 2012 09:30:15 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: HUGE_Hefner http://idolator.com/388457/questions-questions/comment-page-1#comment-565772 HUGE_Hefner Fri, 09 May 2008 05:24:08 +0000 2661eedd8fc439f1b4b139095b274388#comment-565772 <p>I agree with Catbirdseat in a way, I tend to respect less artist who are giving away their music for free. And I have a netlabel, wich seems contradictory. But over the years some artist have conquered me, after a lot of downloading I now own vinil by Go Home Productions and I´m waiting for his record to come out, and I will definitelly pay for it. And If I lived in a country where he performs I will so go to see him live.</p> <p>Now, I know he´s not making millions nor is a superstar, but I bet he´s making a living with music. And to me that´s a lot.</p> <p>Of course, I live in Venezuela, living only off music is not an option over here. All the shows my netlabel Fan Zinatra produces are full of people and in some of them we still lose money. And we give away the music for free, so there's not much of a business model there.</p> I agree with Catbirdseat in a way, I tend to respect less artist who are giving away their music for free. And I have a netlabel, wich seems contradictory. But over the years some artist have conquered me, after a lot of downloading I now own vinil by Go Home Productions and I´m waiting for his record to come out, and I will definitelly pay for it. And If I lived in a country where he performs I will so go to see him live.

Now, I know he´s not making millions nor is a superstar, but I bet he´s making a living with music. And to me that´s a lot.

Of course, I live in Venezuela, living only off music is not an option over here. All the shows my netlabel Fan Zinatra produces are full of people and in some of them we still lose money. And we give away the music for free, so there’s not much of a business model there.

]]> By: RaptorAvatar http://idolator.com/388457/questions-questions/comment-page-1#comment-565752 RaptorAvatar Fri, 09 May 2008 03:29:10 +0000 2661eedd8fc439f1b4b139095b274388#comment-565752 <P>@<A href="http://idolator.com/388457/questions-questions#c5613975">Ned Raggett</A>: Exactly, Indie may be in diminishing returns right now (at least until the lid gets blown off again) but I don't think that's a reason to crave the security blanket of soulless, mass culture mediocrity. Not that the mainstream can't have great art (witness the past decade of TV) but that it's model for music is clearly not evolving. Hell, how many records have come out in the past five years that wouldn't have existed ten years ago? Of those, how many have had any mainstream impact? You probably don't need both hands to count either of these. The model is evolving but the music isn't.</P> @Ned Raggett: Exactly, Indie may be in diminishing returns right now (at least until the lid gets blown off again) but I don’t think that’s a reason to crave the security blanket of soulless, mass culture mediocrity. Not that the mainstream can’t have great art (witness the past decade of TV) but that it’s model for music is clearly not evolving. Hell, how many records have come out in the past five years that wouldn’t have existed ten years ago? Of those, how many have had any mainstream impact? You probably don’t need both hands to count either of these. The model is evolving but the music isn’t.

]]> By: Ned Raggett http://idolator.com/388457/questions-questions/comment-page-1#comment-565762 Ned Raggett Fri, 09 May 2008 02:39:49 +0000 2661eedd8fc439f1b4b139095b274388#comment-565762 <p>@<a href="#c5602045">Maura Johnston</a>: <i>The more I look at this culture of niches the more I think that it's important to have *some* semblance of a center somewhere, and that said center should be something that's looking forward somewhat.</i></p> <p>Was trying to think of a good answer to this yesterday and failed a bit -- this point is clear, and yet...well, to be blunt, taken on the broadest possible terms rather than simply indie, the 'center' for popular music in terms of mass media consciousness is still something like American Idol, slipping ratings notwithstanding. And it's hardly forward looking!</p> @Maura Johnston: The more I look at this
culture of niches the more I think that it’s important to have *some*
semblance of a center somewhere, and that said center should be
something that’s looking forward somewhat.

Was trying to think of a good answer to this yesterday and failed a
bit — this point is clear, and yet…well, to be blunt, taken on the
broadest possible terms rather than simply indie, the ‘center’ for
popular music in terms of mass media consciousness is still something
like American Idol, slipping ratings notwithstanding. And it’s hardly
forward looking!

]]> By: mishaps http://idolator.com/388457/questions-questions/comment-page-1#comment-565782 mishaps Thu, 08 May 2008 10:34:01 +0000 2661eedd8fc439f1b4b139095b274388#comment-565782 <p>The thing is, the very small number of artists who are making it in the "give it away for free" model are also finding places (blogs and print and youtube) to get their music in front of people who will listen to it, finding their own places to play where people will show up, and working with a community of other artists whose success reinforces their own -- the one thing Clive Thompson missed in his piece on the Internet music model that focused on Jonathan Coulton was that Coulton gets a *lot* from being John Hodgman's BFF, and also vice-versa. So on a certain level, you have people acting as their own label, which is extremely time consuming and difficult, and probably to this day still only works for the sort of music that will appeal to nerds who sit in front of their computers all day and think nothing of whipping out the five millionth fan vid for "Code Monkey." Not that I haven't had that song stuck in my head for like a year, but still.</p> The thing is, the very small number of artists who are making it in the “give it away for free” model are also finding places (blogs and print and youtube) to get their music in front of people who will listen to it, finding their own places to play where people will show up, and working with a community of other artists whose success reinforces their own — the one thing Clive Thompson missed in his piece on the Internet music model that focused on Jonathan Coulton was that Coulton gets a *lot* from being John Hodgman’s BFF, and also vice-versa. So on a certain level, you have people acting as their own label, which is extremely time consuming and difficult, and probably to this day still only works for the sort of music that will appeal to nerds who sit in front of their computers all day and think nothing of whipping out the five millionth fan vid for “Code Monkey.” Not that I haven’t had that song stuck in my head for like a year, but still.

]]> By: TheBeard http://idolator.com/388457/questions-questions/comment-page-1#comment-565792 TheBeard Thu, 08 May 2008 10:02:47 +0000 2661eedd8fc439f1b4b139095b274388#comment-565792 <p>@<a href="#c5604215">Catbirdseat</a>:</p> <p>doesn't that take us back around the circle. Can't pay an artist I've never heard of for anything... right?</p> @Catbirdseat:

doesn’t that take us back around the circle. Can’t pay an artist I’ve never heard of for anything… right?

]]> By: TheBeard http://idolator.com/388457/questions-questions/comment-page-1#comment-565802 TheBeard Thu, 08 May 2008 10:01:32 +0000 2661eedd8fc439f1b4b139095b274388#comment-565802 <p>@<a href="#c5603689">Catbirdseat</a>:</p> <p>Not saying I have the perfect plan (If I did, I sure wouldn't post it here -- I'd do and make a bazillion dollars). I will say that I think the model I'm talking about is infinitely better than what exists now (the exact same thing except artists are generally unaffiliated in any way with the people giving away their music). I mean, these blogs are going to continue to grow and grow, and the potential to use those readerships in a way that helps instead of hurts will become more and more apparent. Obviously this model wouldn't offer most artist's a complete source of income (but I don't thing any new-millennium model is going to allow that).</p> @Catbirdseat:

Not saying I have the perfect plan (If I did, I sure wouldn’t post it here — I’d do and make a bazillion dollars). I will say that I think the model I’m talking about is infinitely better than what exists now (the exact same thing except artists are generally unaffiliated in any way with the people giving away their music). I mean, these blogs are going to continue to grow and grow, and the potential to use those readerships in a way that helps instead of hurts will become more and more apparent. Obviously this model wouldn’t offer most artist’s a complete source of income (but I don’t thing any new-millennium model is going to allow that).

]]> By: Catbirdseat http://idolator.com/388457/questions-questions/comment-page-1#comment-565812 Catbirdseat Thu, 08 May 2008 10:00:13 +0000 2661eedd8fc439f1b4b139095b274388#comment-565812 <p>*Artist* for their *Work*</p> *Artist* for their *Work*

]]> By: Catbirdseat http://idolator.com/388457/questions-questions/comment-page-1#comment-565822 Catbirdseat Thu, 08 May 2008 09:59:53 +0000 2661eedd8fc439f1b4b139095b274388#comment-565822 <p>@<a href="#c5604007">TheBeard</a>:</p> <p>"Pay who for what?"</p> <p>How about pay the >artistwork<</p> @TheBeard:

“Pay who for what?”

How about pay the >artistwork<

]]> By: TheBeard http://idolator.com/388457/questions-questions/comment-page-1#comment-565832 TheBeard Thu, 08 May 2008 09:51:02 +0000 2661eedd8fc439f1b4b139095b274388#comment-565832 <p>@<a href="#c5603650">scott pgwp</a>:</p> <p>I don't disagree that we're all too self-aware, but that is sort of ridiculously reductionist. CDs aren't a viable model anymore and most record labels are too bloated/close-minded to survive. That's just fact. So the answers are a little more elusive. I mean, pay who for what?</p> @scott pgwp:

I don’t disagree that we’re all too self-aware, but that is sort of ridiculously reductionist. CDs aren’t a viable model anymore and most record labels are too bloated/close-minded to survive. That’s just fact. So the answers are a little more elusive. I mean, pay who for what?

]]> By: Catbirdseat http://idolator.com/388457/questions-questions/comment-page-1#comment-565842 Catbirdseat Thu, 08 May 2008 09:37:38 +0000 2661eedd8fc439f1b4b139095b274388#comment-565842 <p>@<a href="#c5602706">TheBeard</a>:</p> <p>So, Beard, given (1.), we could also assume (2.)</p> <p>(1.) Artists do what they do now, bloggers "re-release" the "free" music thru their sites, artists get donations, host gets ad revenue.</p> <p>(2.) Painters do what they do now, gallery owner takes the "free" paintings and hangs them in a gallery, leaves a cup out on the table for artist donations, while charging every customer $20 to come in and look.</p> <p>I mean, I'm all for thinking outside the box and figuring out a model for the future, but that scenario you just outlined doesn't fly for me. It's like if you went to a restaurant, and instead of paying the chef and tipping the waiter, you did the exact opposite.</p> @TheBeard:

So, Beard, given (1.), we could also assume (2.)

(1.) Artists do what they do now, bloggers “re-release” the “free” music thru their sites, artists get donations, host gets ad revenue.

(2.) Painters do what they do now, gallery owner takes the “free” paintings and hangs them in a gallery, leaves a cup out on the table for artist donations, while charging every customer $20 to come in and look.

I mean, I’m all for thinking outside the box and figuring out a model for the future, but that scenario you just outlined doesn’t fly for me. It’s like if you went to a restaurant, and instead of paying the chef and tipping the waiter, you did the exact opposite.

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