Comments on: The Great Venue Glut Caused By All-In-One Music Complexes

By: Reidicus

Reidicus — Fri, 10 Oct 2008 02:55:25 +0000

@Ticket Alternative: Somewhat tangential (OK, entirely tangential) to the point of this post, but of those three complexed Atlanta venues mentioned, only one (Center Stage) is a 100% enjoyable place to see a show. Vinyl has generally awful sound and bad layout. (I lament the day the bookings from Smith's started landing there instead.) And The Loft is one of those wretched long and low-ceiling'd rooms where the sound would be crap even with the best engineer in the world, has terrible sightlines and impossible-to-access bathrooms with any sort of crowd. But at least (unlike the similar-sized Heaven at The Masquerade) it doesn't have a pounding disco underneath it.

And where on earth is this free parking you speak of? I've been relying on secret street spots within a few blocks of the venue(s); I'd love to know of a free lot.

By: Q-Head

Q-Head — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 10:19:56 +0000

The logic is all about control. AEG/Goldenvoice has been able to book the El Rey and other venues with capacity around 1,000 but have had no place to book an artist in a venue smaller than Staples Center. They needed a 2,000 capacity and 6k-7k capacity to compete in LA with Live Nation's Wiltern and Gibson/Universal Amphitheater.
Conga Room will be Latin-centric but with AEG and Goldenvocie booking it, it's likely that fringe acts will get in there. Or shows that don't sell at clkub nokia get moved there.
Live Nation has three venues between 1,000 and 2,200 - House of Blues, Avalon and Wiltern. It seems like no one has noticed the Palladium was MIA for a year.
As for the economy, as long as there are no strikes and TV shows and films are in production and post-production, LA coasts along regardless of the rest of the country. Disrupt that apple cart and it does not matter what is happening on Wall Street, this place is all doom and gloom.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 08:49:52 +0000

Anybody wanna start a pool on how many people get shot at the Jay-Z concert at the Palladium?

By: Ticket Alternative

Ticket Alternative — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 08:11:07 +0000

@lucas jenson: there's tonnes of free parking in our lot (ticket alternative) and there's plenty of really cheap parking across the road. Yes, the parking underneath is expensive, but that's because it's an independant lot. Contrary to popular belief, it's not run by the venue.

As for foot traffic, the only venues in town would be The Earl & the Ten High, Andrews Upstairs, Hard Rock Cafe, Sugar Hill. Of those, only the EARL pulls in your typical indie shows.

In East Atlanta the new Icehouse is off the beaten path, in midtown Smiths Olde Bar is a stand-alone building, the Tabernacle downtown is stand alone, The Roxy (that was in Buckhead) is dead at the moment, Drunken Unicorn is next to a supermarket, Gwinnett Arena is miles away and so on.

Agreed - the Cotton Club was better on it's own. What's crazy is that building is still there.. one wonders if the Cotton Club could still be going!

By: Lucas Jensen

Lucas Jensen — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 08:00:02 +0000

@ticketalt: But is car traffic the same as foot traffic? The neighborhood is prohibitively expensive to park in, and bands often have to pay for parking there. I agree that Vinyl is very supportive of smaller artists, but it doesn't mean that the location is not optimal. And one could argue that the Masquerade has something of a tiered system with the Heaven/Hell thing...in the same building. I'm not knocking the complex itself so much as the idea of music venue complex as a viable model. The Cotton Club was much better as its own club and not part of the Tabernacle. The Knitting Factory NY was better as just the Knitting Factory. Having shows in the same complex competing for the same dollars in this economy does not seem to me to be viable.

By: Ticket Alternative

Ticket Alternative — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 07:32:08 +0000

Your comment about CenterStage/The Loft/Vinyl attracting zero foot traffic is wrong. So many thousands more people drive past this venue than just about any other venue in Atlanta. They learn of shows posted on their marquee that they may not have read about, only to attend later. Venues like this with cool promoters (Rival Entertainment) have the ability to allow an artist to grow. One can start out in Vinyl (300 cap), then move to The Loft (700 cap), then on to CenterStage (1200 cap) – There aren’t any other venues that can say that in town.

By: Lucas Jensen

Lucas Jensen — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 06:25:04 +0000

@Audif Jackson Winters III: I don't live there, so further reporting from somebody else would be nice!

By: Audif Jackson Winters III

Audif Jackson Winters III — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 04:35:26 +0000

Yeah, I was kind of surprised at that description of the Conga Room, too. When I lived in LA, I knew it mostly as a place people went to dance, that played a lot of salsa.

By: How do I say this ... THROWDINI!

How do I say this ... THROWDINI! — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 04:33:45 +0000

@2ironic4u: @Lucas Jensen: Yeah, I didn't figure that there would actually be lower ticket prices, but at least I now know the reasons why.

By: michaelpop

michaelpop — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 04:21:57 +0000

The Conga Room was on Wilshire Blvd. for many years. It's early and I haven't had my coffee yet.

By: michaelpop

michaelpop — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 04:20:45 +0000

The Conga Room on Wilshire Blvd. near Koreatown for many years before closing down last year. They were a venue for latin and world music artists, but I believe primarily a dance club, so since they kept the brand, I don’t think that they’ll be booking any “indie” artists. Unless Vampire Weekend is suddenly considered “world”.

By: Lucas Jensen

Lucas Jensen — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 04:19:56 +0000

@How do I say this ... THROWDINI!: I didn't address this, but the article talks about how more venues equals less people per show equals...higher ticket prices! Pretty weird, I know.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 04:17:42 +0000

@How do I say this ... THROWDINI!: Actually in terms of pricing it's usually the other way around. With more venues, there are more promoters. With more promoters it means that said artist can take the highest bid when playing a city (you are particularly screwed if you live in a larger market). When the high big gets put in, that means higher ticket prices for you and me.

I totally hear you on the "acts playing the same night." On Nov. 7th in NYC this year I had to choose between seeing the 2nd night of the Smashing Pumpkins or the Hold Steady or Dredg (I went with the first choice, don't scold).

By: How do I say this ... THROWDINI!

How do I say this ... THROWDINI! — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 04:12:12 +0000

Also, not to be snotty, but Death Cab actually played the “Big Venue” a couple of months ago, selling it out rather easily. And I’m seeing Kings of Leon there next week. I know, right? I’m as shocked as anyone that they think KoL will sell that many tickets in America. Unsurprisingly, seats are still available.

By: How do I say this ... THROWDINI!

How do I say this ... THROWDINI! — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 04:11:26 +0000

Whatever with “too many venues.” I don’t own a venue, so what this really means for me is more choices on any given night. And if the laws of supply-and-demand apply to ticket pricing, it also means lower prices. (Ok, so that won’t happen.) Actually, to me the downside is when two acts I want to see are playing on the same night. Like on Nov. 1, Yelle, She & Him and The 88 are all playing in different venues around down. Rather than seeing all three, I have to pick. (Time to learn French I think.)

By: Lucas Jensen

Lucas Jensen — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 03:38:29 +0000

@2ironic4u: The Gibson Ampitheater and the Wiltern, respectively.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 03:35:18 +0000

Chicago already has too many venues. It seem like a new 200-700 capacity one opens every year. This wouldn’t be a problem if they had regular crowds or foot traffic, but it seems like they’re in neighborhoods no one lives in (some of which aren’t particularly safe). A few try to do the restaurant/record store thing, but who wants to hang out in the same venue from 7 p.m. to 1 a.m.?

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 03:14:28 +0000

What are the two Live Nation venues you speak of (6,000 and 2,000) that the Palladium is between?

Also, they should do an article like this focusing on NYC. There are WAY too many venues here.

By: Audif Jackson Winters III

Audif Jackson Winters III — Thu, 09 Oct 2008 02:48:56 +0000

"having three (or more!) venues clustered together just seems like cannibalism"

Or, economies of scale. You decide.