And I think the Kiss/Pink Floyd comparison is underselling things. It’s more like Pink Floyd fans vs. fans of Foghat or BTO, really unpopular workmanlike blue-collar ’70s bands.

I do think that to some extent the heavier, more visceral hard rock music has a broader appeal, but I don’t think it necessarily has to be as intellectually vacant as Hinder’s brand of butt-rock.

I’m not saying blue state folk don’t rock out – there’s just a greater self-awareness of doing so. Using your terms (and noting belatedly that one-size-fits-all-generalizing is always inaccurate), my contention would be that Hinder et al don’t “apply esoteric fine art principles to the dionysian aspects of punk.” I’m just not good at that whole brevity thing, hence the giant block of prose. Both you and Stooberman said it much better than I did.

@drinkypuss:

Faced with the option of seeing DBT vs. a rescheduled NIN show this weekend, I’ve opted to go with NIN specifically because of supporting musicians. The band just isn’t the same without Isbell, bless John Neff’s heart. Conversely, this will be one of the last chances to see NIN with both Josh Freese AND Robin Finck.

Defaming entire regions of the country for the musical sins of a few is just as stupid – and easily refuted – as pretending some little college town is “the next Seattle” because three bands have emerged from there.

Anyway, they are a funny band to use as a prism through which was can view this debate. And i can’t wait to see them for a first and second time here in NYC this week, just can’t wait.

I mean, yeah, Hinder is something Other People listen to here as well, but I also know only one person who likes MGMT (I mean, I guess “Time to Pretend” is ok, but that’ it), and absolutely no one off the internet who listens to TV on the Radio or Vampire Weekend.

(And there’s always people who listen to plenty of music without ever listening to any kind of rock.)

@stooberman: I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

Anyone think the severe decline in people buying music-focused print publications is because they love to cover blog/indie/whatever bands that only a small audience seems to care about (Vampire Weekend, MGMT, Hold Steady, etc.)? To sum up, print publications want to still see big numbers but cover “cool” bands and it’s hard to do that with the increasingly fragmented tastes. Do most people really want to plunk down $4 to read an article on Girl Talk or Animal Collective?

I have probably over-analysed rock music at this point.

This is true of revolutionary rock music like Elvis and the Stones, it’s true of closed-minded and reactionary rock music like all those bands that talk about bringing “real rock” back, and it’s true of very, very, very fucking stupid rock music like the Sex Pistols.

On a more basic level, you could say that there are obvious links between rock and country’s “outlaw” mystique and the victimisation complex that certain sections of conservative America have been hawking for the past decade.

Shorter Version of above: What You Just Said.

:

First off, as a huge DBT fan, I’m clearly in agreement with you – The Cooley/Hood songwriting split really does cover all the bases with respect to Red State / Blue State mindsets, and I think the dichotomy between the two styles really gives some insight as to why Creed/Nickelback/Etc. are so popular in what some of my friends jokingly call “Jesusland.”

Patterson Hood writes songs that, beyond hewing towards populist/progressive themes, tend to get fairly introspective and, for lack of a better word, intellectual. Mike Cooley, on the other hand, tends to take a more pragmatic view of life. The best illustration of this comes on Decoration Day, where both write about a friend’s recent suicide in admittedly different ways – Pin Hits the Shell by Cooley, and Do It To Yourself by Hood.

That philosophical split in how the two songwriters approach the same subject sums up what seems to be the big difference between Blue State and Red State tastes in rock. In the Blue States (and this is from someone born in the Red States, educated and currently living in Blue States), popular bands like TV On The Radio get plenty of credit because they have a form that fits with the preferences of the area – it’s a plus in Blue States to be intellectual/grad student-y/stridently liberal/overly philosophical. They don’t really “rock out,” so much as they approach the intellectually-held platonic ideal of un-self-consciously rocking out. For all its highs and lows, Desperate Youth, Bloodthirsty Babes comes across as contrived and artificial, something meticulously plotted out. I use TV On The Radio as a stand-in, but I think the same could be said for almost any band popularized in Spin – name one that doesn’t owe a debt to art-rock acts such as Can or Wire or that ilk. You start out with a musical framework that began as a stance outside the AOR mainstream, you’re not going to get something with massive appeal beyond critical respect.

Conversely, Hinder et al stick with a simple rock template – 2 guitars, frontman, drummer, bassist. They don’t get experimental and try and incorporate turntablists, samplers, free jazz, etc. In other words, it’s anti-art rock. Take AOR radio in its heyday of the 70′s. Skip over Punk, Post-Punk, Art-Rock, Krautrock, Disco, Hip-Hop and all those other art-school supported movements that took place from 1977 through 1994. Add a dash of mid-90s PRS-Guitars-meets-Mesa-Boogie-Amps-at-Guitar-Center production, and lo and behold, Red State AOR. It’s simple, doesn’t require a degree in comp lit to understand the lyrics, and it’s easily approachable. Why does this resonate with Red State folk? Because, frankly, Red State folk have a different set of priorities. Don’t laugh – “Git ‘r done” isn’t just a comedian’s catchphrase. Red State rock, along with mainstream country music, have a visceral appeal.

Which is kind of the real insight from all this – this is America. Don’t overthink it.

@rogerworkman: Co-signed.