Idolator

Ah, well, I guess I stand corrected.

Girl Talk at number 7? An interesting technological exercise, to be sure, but not a great album.

Oh, glad we cleared that up. I say (as do several others) it is a great album. Who cares? Nobody. But what's offensive is the utter disregard for the artistry involved in anything that's not guitar-bass-drums. The inanity of the idea that using technical reproduction to produce music is somehow suspect should be self-evident to anyone even slightly acquainted with the history of twentieth-century music. And rock records are made without technology?

Yes, I liked She & Him, but number one is a little much. On the cover of Paste they even look a little puzzled themselves....and no love for Aimee Mann?

Actually, everyone on the internet loves to show that they know what "straw man" means. In this case, it's very interesting that the phrase "technological exercise" is applied to the very record that was not made by "real musicians." If you don't see the condescension inherent in both characterizations - both of which are intended to show that the magazine rated the record too highly on the grounds that it was made on a laptop - then perhaps you'd like to explain to me how they're not truly condescending, instead of simply denying that the contention they imply is actually being made.

@Murk: I'm almost certain no one is making the contention you're arguing against, but hey, everyone loves a straw man.

@Murk: Sigh.

i've only heard eight of these. really liked five of them (the raveonettes' is their best yet, i think. also santogold, santogold again, lykke li and tv on the radio) but i despised the other three (she & him, of montreal and jamie lidell) with all of my being.

When are music nerds ever going to agree on any "Ultimate," "Year End," "Best of," "Top Ten," "I know more than you and my record collection proves it," list? Never.

We all just love to fan our over-informed feathers for each other, never realizing that NO ONE outside of our snot-nosed tunnel vision view GIVES A SHIT. Even if you're respectable like Paste.

I gave Fergie one of my Top Ten album slots last year. That probably means I have no right to even be writing about music in the first place.

I'm throwing Metro Station on my list this year along with The Breeders, Lil' Wayne, and that wretched Girl Talk no one seems to want to give credit to. Why? Because their record did what it was supposed to do, and did it really well.

MS are like the Beach Boys with coke and hairspray and Myspace. And I love them because of it.

Maybe it's just my age, but I only own five of the Paste "top 50" for 2008 (Hold Steady, MMJ, Silver Jews, REM, Girl Talk) and there are only a couple of others (Walkmen, Okkervil River) that I'd even be remotely interested in hearing. Girl Talk at number 7? An interesting technological exercise, to be sure, but not a great album. Fleet Foxes and Vampire Weekend are probably just this week's flavor, and Sigur Ros isn't doing anything that Brian Eno and Cluster didn't do better (and they did it first).

I'd agree with "unperson" about Meshuggah, Opeth, Gojira and the Sword among the best metal albums of '08, and would begrudgingly reconize Metallica, save for the god-awful production. When talking metal 2008, though, you can't ignore great albums by Ihsahn or King's X, and the Burzum anthology was pretty sweet, too.

Lots of people put Against Me! in their top ten. I thought it easily one of the ten best records of last year. Not number one though - that was Lil Wayne's Da Drought 3, no question.

There are things I want to say, but I don't know if they will be to you.

Damn right Bandwagonesque wasn't remotely good enough to be named best album of 1991.

@DocStrange: Damn right Bandwagonesque was good.

@Dan Gibson: I like that one MGMT song. Kids? Can't help it.

@Michaelangelo Matos: Oh no, I agree with you that much released that year was better and certainly more important, but I don't think it's the atrocity that people say it was. They look super-silly in hindsight, but as far as beating out Nirvana, Nirvana fever was just getting going when that poll was probably written. Nevermind was released in September of 1991, and it didn't reach #1 on the Billboard charts until the next year. It was a slow grower, and that list was probably written in October or November. If memory serves me, Nevermind was #3 on their list, too, which is hardly small potatoes. I think that the importance of Nevermind. Now, over Loveless, yeah, there's no excuse!

The fact that, years later, System of a Down was named #1 by SPIN over anything is a bigger problem to me.

@DocStrange: That Against Me! pick was wild.

@Lucas Jensen: I like MGMT, too and they sound like they have a bright future ahead of them as a singles band.

Also, yes, Bandwagonesque was a good record with a classic single ("What You Do To Me"), but #1 over all the albums released in what was a landmark year for music? unforgivable. As I said before, SPIN pulled it again by naming Against Me!'s New Wave not a bad record, but #1? or even in the Top 50? and over Radiohead and LCD Soundsystem?

Actually, a better comparison might be the Grammy for Album of the Year going to Herbie Hancock's Joni Mitchell covers album (which Molanphy had plenty to say about: [idolator.com]).

@Murk: Just to clarify, Matos' assessment of my use of quotation marks in this case was correct. I actually enjoy Girl Talk quite a bit (as I've mentioned maybe a dozen times), but it's certainly a very different sort of musical product. Not better or worse in essence than, say, the MGMT disc, just different.

That being said, I haven't personally listened to _Night Ripper_ in a while, and _Feed The Animals_ entertains me less and less as time goes on. As essentially a form of mixtape heavily dependent on recent sample sources, I find that, like most mixtapes, the shine wears off pretty fast. I liked this year's Reggae Gold comp a lot too, but I doubt it would make my top ten list.

Also, this whole music thing is supposed to be fun, remember? Lighten up.

("them" = musicians of one kind vs. another)

@Murk: I should probably not try to speak for Dan, but I read the scare quotes as mocking Paste a little bit--the idea being that separating them is a little absurd at this stage. I think the She & Him pick is wrongheaded too, not because Paste or its editors/writers are stupid but because it's hard to believe a record that slight would actually have topped anyone's list--like when Spin named Teenage Fanclub's Bandwagonesque its No. 1 of 1991, ahead of Nevermind, Loveless, Out of Time, and many others that even without the benefit of historical hindsight carried more heft.

@Michaelangelo Matos: Wait, you made the Bandwagonesque reference before I could. Good on ya.

@baconfat: Agreed. I know me and Baconfat are in a minority (what with liking the She & Him record and all), but also find the placement at #1 as completely stupid and idiotic. No love for Los Campesinos!, Long Blondes, Forward Russia, Drive-By Truckers, Midnight Juggernauts, Why? or Beach House? And the fact that Laura Marling and TV on the Radio are rated lower than they should be?

Et tu, Paste? You were the last good music magazine left and now you do stuff like this (SPIN did stuff in recent years like firing Chuck Klosterman and naming Against Me!'s last album the best of 2007 over far better records - They did the same thing in 1991, but at least Bandwagonesque by Teenage Fanclub was good)

Putting scare quotes around "real musicians" doesn't make you any less stupid for thinking that Girl Talk - & by implication every hip-hop producer - is somehow less of a real musician than an umpteenth indie guitarist.

And the comments on this blog are tedious enough without the actual writers joining in to pretend that choosing the best records of the year is a science, & there are right or wrong answers. Seriously, I hope the idiot who calls him- or herself "wakeupbomb" is under 16. If it's some adult walking around under the delusion that because he thinks something sucks, it therefore sucks & anyone who can't see that is dumb, well, that's just sad.

I like Santogold. I think Beach House is just about the most godawful band imaginable. I think the best album of the year is Fucked Up's, with Portishead, Taylor Swift, & Bon Iver close behind. But you know what? I don't actually believe people who don't like those records are either wrong or stupid.

@Michaelangelo Matos: Can I just say that I still listen to Bandwagonesque and Loveless and Out of Time and Nevermind? I think it was a messed up pick, too, but I don't think She & Him even gets close to Bandwagonesque territory.

I think that maybe one of my top ten this year will even show up on one of these lists. When people say things like "it's a bad year for music" I hope they mean a bad year for consensus music that would go on lists like this one. I have no trouble finding ten records I love every year, if not fifty.

Ohhh man. Its way too early for the list making. Too. Early. Its like putting up Christmas decorations the day after Halloween.

Is this like the Iowa Caucus? Are Vampire Weekend John Edwards?

Ah well. The She and Him record has a great first half then totally loses steam. But what strikes me about this list is how many really kinda boring records are on it. And I don't think that there will be too much variation from these 50 in different orders as the lists start to bubble out.

And also- this particular publication has a different view about what music is good than I do- whatsupwiththat? haters.

@Nunya B: HAHA!! US Amazon's selling it for $32. I'll look into it, thanks.

*cranks up her sarcasm knob a little higher*

@baconfat: @Lucas Jensen: YES, THE MATADOR CRACK WAS A JOKE. Sorry I didn't make that more clear. (thanks for reading me

westartedthis -- I mean, making fun of Paste is kind of like kicking a cripple, but it's so damn fun.)

Frankly, I was surprised not to see Shearwater on this list.

@Maura Johnston: Seriously. I smell a feature.

@Nunya B: Though, honestly, there are a thousand other UK-only releases that I think would probably be more worthy of real cash, but chacun a son gout.

@Halfwit: With the exchange rate what it is, you can get the album for about $14 (£6, 15% VAT deducted, £3 shipping) from Amazon.co.uk.

@Maura Johnston: That's the sadness, isn't it? I downloaded the UK version of Robyn, but did eventually buy the US release (kept the UK bonus track, though).

I've also been sitting on Ida Maria for the longest, but I'd like to spend a (logical) amount of money on her. Do artists even get a cut of import sales, or is it basically a "middle man" option (like used CDs)?

@Maciej: "Sublime" and "Under the Table and Dreaming" went over great at my summer pool parties. That doesn't mean that they were the best albums to come in those years.

I'm really happy to see Hot Chip in the top 20. There may have been better "albums," but that was definitely one of my favorite "collections of songs" this year.

i think it was just a lil' joke at both Paste and Matador's expense.

@the rich girls are weeping: Yeah but the Jennifer O'Connor record is definitely NOT "edgy" (unless you're put off by the idea of an actual non-Katy Perry lesbian kissing her girlfriend on the front cover) in any way, shape, or form. And you're telling me that the same mag which will highly rate a Silver Jews and Deerhunter (both on "edgy" indie labels) record won't go gaga for a very solid Malkmus effort?

If this is the start of a complete lack of attention for Beach House, H&LA, and Goldfrapp I am going to be so peeved. I will be further annoyed if I keep seeing Hot Chip show up on these sorts of lists.

@the rich girls are weeping: Is Jennifer O'Connor edgy? I can't believe she has a career.

@Dan Gibson: "But the question ends up being whether these best of lists are really running down the "best" of the year, and that the idea of lasting value and meaning is taken into consideration, or whether a disc's inclusion just means that it was awesome to hear at parties."

I wonder about this, not because I care for Girl Talk at all, but because I wonder a) how one can judge lasting value w/o a crystal ball and b) why music being great at parties would at all be a negative measurement of this value.

@the rich girls are weeping: 2008: the year of the bromance? (maybe that's why i was so underwhelmed so much?)

@Halfwit: a good point. honestly, i have no idea on either level; i would imagine that for ida maria to get a shake from universal execs in the states, the album would have to be retrofitted to fit, i don't know, travis mccoy on there or something.

the whole 'global marketplace' is something that i think about a lot, what with The Device You Are Gazing At (to quote rob kemp) collapsing the idea of international release dates in a weird way. i mean, just look at the robyn album -- universal sat on it here for how long? and it underperformed in part because people who liked it had acquired it in some way (legal or illegal). of course, it also underperformed because programmers in the states are idiots who don't recognize good pop songs, but, sigh.

oh! also "The Sycophant" by Indian.

@the rich girls are weeping: lol on the "man crushes". i am utterly shocked that Fleet Foxes isn't their #1. hey, i even LIKE that record and i find that funny. the only thing paste magazine loves more than a waifish childlike woman is a burly bearded man.

Maybe I need to just start listening to metal all the time. I think it's come to that. The Paste list, as ever, made me want to kill people.

@baconfat: As for the lack of Matador product -- um, I think that's to edgy for a mag that put She and Him in the No. 1 slot.

Why don't they just tell it like it is? They all have boners for Zooey Deschanel. What amazes me is she trumped their probably inevitable man crushes on Fleet Foxes and Bon Iver. (YES I WENT THERE.)

@westartedthis: I should have mentioned how odd the I'm From Barcelona mention was. Last year, they mentioned that they sat down in a conference room to compile their list. I can't imagine who had the gall to propose that charmless IFB disc and how they weren't fired on the spot.

That's like the tip of the iceberg, by the way; I edit a metal magazine full-time, and this year has been fantastic.

@unperson: Opeth, Watershed

Track two on that record is by far the best folk-funk-prog metal song of the year.

@unperson: You had me until you mentioned Nostradamus.

@unperson: <-- also just read his post, Dan and Maura.

@Dan Gibson: well, i probably don't follow satan-rock like i should, and i have little patience for the drony, "experimental" side of black metal. or most black metal at all for that matter - if Krallice is black metal, then i guess they are an exception. in short, i'm a dilettante - which i guess makes my point that it was a good year for metal if even the dilettantes are noticing.

i'm using itunes to help me remember stuff, which is probably an incomplete listing of what i actually listened to:

Harvey Milk - Life...the Best Game in Town

Magic Lantern - High Beams


Boris - Smile (seek the Japanese version if you can, but the american version is also good, just not as)


Krallice - Krallice


Plague Bringer - Life Songs in a Land of Death


Skeletonwitch - Beyond the Permafrost (late 07 release i didn't hear until this year)

and if i'm going to include records that are super "heavy", but don't necessarily "rock":

Earth - the Bees Made Honey in the Lion's Skull

Growing - All the Way

surely, there are pleasures in Torche's record that one may not find in any of those. it just seemed weird - and i guess, annoying - for Paste magazine to have it there (right above I'm From Barcelona's shitty second record, which didn't even have the decency to include a disposably awesome song like their eponymous theme from their first also mostly-shitty record). since when do they even like "hard rock" much less the sludgy metal that Torche plays?

and while i'm on my high horse, it kind of reeks to see Lil' Wayne as the only hip-hop record, but A.) i like it, B.) there's the whole "cultural phenomenon" thing with Weezy, and C.) i'm going to see a lot more token mentions of it as the year-end lists roll on.

@Maura Johnston: Is it fair for them to consider Ida Maria, since the majority of Americans haven't had a (legitimate) chance to hear the album yet?

Is it actually ever being officially released in the US?

@Dan Gibson:

Opeth, Watershed

Metallica, Death Magnetic


Meshuggah, obZen


Slipknot, All Hope Is Gone


Gojira, The Way Of All Flesh


Amon Amarth, Twilight Of The Thunder God


Harvey Milk, Life…The Best Game In Town


Nachtmystium, Assassins: Black Meddle Pt. 1


Enslaved, Vertebrae


Cavalera Conspiracy, Inflikted


Torche, Meanderthal


Krallice, Krallice


Neuraxis, The Thin Line Between


Judas Priest, Nostradamus


Testament, The Formation Of Damnation


The Sword, Gods Of The Earth


Genghis Tron, Board Up The House


Wetnurse, Invisible City


GridLink, Amber Gray


Made Out Of Babies, The Ruiner


Children Of Bodom, Blooddrunk


Lair Of The Minotaur, War Metal Battle Master

@whoneedslight: That obscene error, plus the lack of Portishead on this list, has me writing it off completely.

@Lucas Jensen: Oops...I meant I can't believe they are on the list because they are terrible.

Dan, here is something we completely on: Ida Maria's album is one of my favorites of the year. Though parts of this list were simply confounding, Fortress being in there- and all the way up at 13!- brought a smile to my face.

@wakeupbomb: Wait, you can't believe they are terrible?

I like Santogold, for the record.

@westartedthis: i have the same question as dan!!

I am sad to see Dear Science all the way down at the bottom. Below Accelerate even.

The simple fact that Vampire Weekend and Fleet Foxes are both in the top 10 shows me that Paste has terrible taste. Those two albums suck as does anything put out by Santigold. Ugh. I can't believe these flash in the pan, nothing "artists" are terrible.

@westartedthis: As someone who lacks the energy to aggressively follow metal these days, I'll bite; what are the essential metal albums of 2008?

Sun Kil Moon put out a really great record -- glad to see it make at least one list.

No Jenny Lewis or Coldplay? Is that their way of baiting their readership?

good god, paste - 50? i know p-fork and many other magazines do 50, but at least most of them have a wide enough purview to warrant that many albums on a best-of list. tokenism and lip service aside, they do cover house, dubstep, metal (if torche is the only metal album on your list THIS year, then fuck you, that's all), etc.

at least it isn't 100 like it was last year. i'm already getting list burnout thanks to this one. how many polite indie/folk/americana records can you appreciate in a given year? i say that as a pretty staunch fan of the genre, but c'mon.

I like the She & Him album a lot -- but not #1. Of course I'm totally in the tank for anything M. Ward so there's that....

I'm sorry, but Ida Maria just didn't do it for me -- every song is exactly the same thematically (and mostly musically as well), and she even has two songs that are almost entirely comprised of yelling the title character's name.

Glad to see Walkmen up there. That album is gorgeous.

@Rob Murphy: My assumption is that Womack's limited sales success debuting at #23 seemed more indie credible than picking a Sugarland disc that opened at #1.

Just a hunch.

she and him are god awful, they just have a boner for Zoe and are trying to justify giving them the cover in the spring.

Not seeing Beach House, Portishead or Department of Eagles is criminal.

@R. Morast: @Al Shipley: That caught my eye too. Womack's record is good, but it's not anywhere near as good as Sugarland's record, which seemingly would fit in much more easily on this "playlist". I wonder why Womack got the "token country album" slot instead.

But -- kudos to Womack for outranking MGMT.

Flight of the Conchords. Interesting. The possibility somehow hadn't occurred to me that the Conchords album is a legitimate 'end-of-year-list' album, which it totally is. Despite being a "novelty" or whatever, it's a hell of a lot more enjoyable (and well-written) than a lot of stuff at was released this year. I'll be curious to see how many lists it ends up on. I actually hope it makes some top 10's.

@R. Morast: Womack kind of did a neo-classic country makeover a few years ago and became a lot more Paste-friendly.

I guess Paste forgot that WARBRINGER put out an album this year

I really enjoy the hell out of that She & Him record. That being said, it's not a number one album. Lower half of the top ten, maybe, but definitely not number one.

Did everyone just forget that Stephen Malkmus and Times New Viking both put out amazing records this year? Is Matador not throwing enough payola Paste's way? Their readers should be eating that Jennifer O'Connor record up like it's made out of bacon. The lack of a Magnetic Fields record is surprising as well.

I like all the question marks at #18.

ida maria is so best.

lee ann womack at 26? do paste readers really listen to womack?