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This weekend is going to be a bit shorter than usual thanks to Chinese Democracy coming out Sunday and the American Music Awards happening Sunday night, so I figured I’d leave you with a snippet of a discussion that I had with Pitchfork’s Marc Hogan, where I attempted to figure out why the indie-heavy stretch of that Blender albums list rubbed me the not-right way earlier today: “I guess maybe part of what I’m also trying (clumsily) to say is that I miss the days of the lost major-label gem? The good album that wasn’t by a megastar (either major-label ‘celebrity’ level or Jenny Lewis ‘covered by every music publication’ level—you can sub Lucinda Williams in for JL if you want) that was still worthy of recognition? That middle seems to have been lost in the great polarization between ‘music-related celebrities’ and ‘people who really mean it, man,’ and it’s a shame, because there are still tons of worthy albums out there that could have used the boost. (Maybe I’m drawing too much on personal experience here, but I do think these lists have some power, still, in this every-ear-for-itself age.)” But am I expecting too much from a wrapup that’s ultimately the result of a slightly massaged consensus?
I’d say yes and no. On the one hand, there are always those instances where “consensus picks” get where they are not because they’re great, but because they’re solid enough to be mentioned by a quorum of voters, and a list that’s essentially the result of groupthink kind of has to have those picks. And I know that some of my questioning this stuff is a result of feeling kind of alienated by Death Cab For Cutie being “approved” by people who I sort of consider my peers and Ne-Yo not. But what really surprised me was the lack of curveballs. Sure, this could be due in part to my immersion in these debates, but I was genuinely struck, at least on the Blender list, at how those albums that didn’t fall within the seeming “default” genre of critic-approved Authentic Music wound up being something of a default pick–Metallica was the metal album of choice, Taylor Swift country, Usher (inexplicably) the R & B selection, etc. Pretty much any example of deviation was in a way completely expected (save perhaps Randy Newman), an odd occurrence in a year that was marked by a lot of talk about how there was “so much music out there.” (And on another personal note, there are a bunch of albums that, to me, sounded interesting and existed sorta under-the-radar: The Academy Is… and Solange, to name two. Also that the Portishead album got ignored by both publications whose lists we covered today is something that, frankly, boggles the mind.)
Maybe I’m starting to feel that the big bolt-from-heaven omnibus lists, despite providing so much fodder for arguments and pageviews, need a little more contextualization, like how they’re put together or even just like some sort of “here’s what almost made it” sidebar. (Hey, being reminded of those just-below-the-radar artists would have the added bonus of jogging memories in a time when the promotion of most cultural phenomena seems to stop at 12:01 a.m. on said phenomena’s release date.) To its credit, Blender does have something like a billion song selections scattered throughout its year-end issue; hell, maybe the curated-playlist idea will trump the best-album-rundown one in the end, what with attention spans these days being shorter than ever.
I worry that this whole post is super-inside-baseball (even if people love arguing over the lists themselves), and I should back away from the computer since I’m going to have to return within 40-ish hours or so to talk about Chinese Democracy. But I suspect that someone out there might have an opinion–the Top Five Problems With End-Of-Year Listmaking, even? Ha ha ha.
Earlier: “Blender” Would Like To Remind You That It Really Enjoys Lil Wayne’s Music
(P.S.: Yes, I know that I use emphasis quotes too much. Sorry about that.)
I just have to say, the Solange record really is an example of an album that got totally short-shrifted in spite of its quality.
@Michaelangelo Matos: Regardless of my feelings for Ne-Yo (and I will check it out…again), I think the perceived lack of capital-A albums in hip-hop and R&B (and, btw, I’m not saying that I think that half of these “rockers” put out capital-A albums, either!) is why they often suffer on these lists. I think it’s all perception, of course. R&B, pop, and hip-hop artists have been putting out capital-A albums for years, but the “this is real music” crowd fails to accept it.
I was thinking of something: perhaps the reason that things default to “indie rock” is that the underground infrastructure there is so much better developed. There is more of a music middle class. There are a lot of reasons for this: general affluence of usual listeners, the rock club infrastructure, more artists and independent labels. Can you imagine being an indie R&B artist or even a small-level modern rocker? Who writes about you? Where do you go to play shows? What radio stations play you?
Not to argue with my boss here, but, Maura, what if I just don’t like Ne-Yo? You keep telling me it’s great and I keep hating it. And I know it’s unpopular to say this around here, but I honestly believe “rock” or “indie rock” is a much broader tent than, say, modern R&B. You have Deerhoof, TVOTR, Dept. of Eagles, Fleet Foxes, Of Montreal, and, yes, She & Him all operating under the rubric of “indie rock” (Interscope be damned on TVOTR). That’s a lot of diversity and just wrote down five bands. I just don’t see it in country, R&B, and even some hip-hop. Call me a rockist or whatever, but most modern country sounds EXACTLY the same, as does a lot of R&B. Same with modern rock, really, and, sure, plenty of indie rock. But I find that genre less limiting despite its whiteness and maleness. I put it in quotes because I think that “indie rock” as a genre has lost all real meaning, like the word “hipster”. Ultimately, I think we both agree that an unadventurous and unimaginative criterati is probably the problem, coupled with the obvious fact that building consensus=compromises. Outliers will fade away. Almost all of my favorite records of the year are “indie rock,” but they are extraordinarily different albums that share hardly any commonality except having been reviewed by Pitchfork.
I honestly have more of a problem with Blender acting like anything other than Blender, and it seemed like it was Blender just fine with that list. A little of this, a little of that, some tokenism, voila! Blender list. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: let Blender be Blender, let Paste be Paste, let No Depression be No Depression, and let Vibe be Vibe. Why do these lists have to omnibus? Is Vibe going to put Vampire Weekend #1? Hell, no. Is anybody gonna call them on it? Nope. Blender is a “little bit of this and that”-type magazine. So Paste’s list looks milquetoast and is heavy on the folksy stuff. It’s Paste Magazine! I don’t think we are going to win against the lists, so let ‘em have it.
Critique what they say, absolutely, but we’re almost to the point now of suggesting that they write completely different content to suit our views. It’s like going up to a punk band that stinks and asking them to sound like vintage Run DMC because then they would be better. Of course they would, but they’re a punk band. That’s what they do. There’s no use fighting it.
What I’m trying to say here is that I love everyone.
Lucas, I won’t call you a rockist. I’ll just call you deaf.
Solange, Ne-Yo, Raphael Saadiq, Erykah Badu, The-Dream: that’s a lot of diversity and I just wrote down five artists. And that’s just keeping to stuff that can be called “R&B,” which only “all sounds alike” if you’re not paying any attention at all.
“Can you imagine being an indie R&B artist or even a small-level modern rocker? Who writes about you? Where do you go to play shows? What radio stations play you?”
1. Absolutepunk.
2. Warped Tour.
3. That’s a question that I’ve been trying to answer since I attended this year’s version of #2.
Also: “I’m sorry, but [rock] will almost always have somebody [singing] over [guitars].” I mean, I’m just saying.
I wasn’t slagging r and b necessarily. I said a lot sounds the same. Not all and not even most. As a devoted listener of 95.5 the beat in ATL I think I can safely say that. It’s not a criticism even like it is with country. What I’m trying to suggest is that that’s why tokenism tends to rear its head in these discussions. It’s unfair to look at disparate sounding albums and call them all rock and bemoan it.
And I am typing this on my phone so my syntax sucks. The future is not here.
@Lucas Jensen: here’s the thing about blender, which i am pretty specifically referring to here: as our anono-critic put it yesterday, its purview used to be a lot wider, and its ‘defaults’ didn’t used to be so, well, defaulty. you could trust it to know what a good metal record sounded like, or a solid r&b album; it didn’t just default to celebrity and making sure readers ‘got’ their choices. part of the problem with that, of course, is that the music-reviews section, where critics would get a first taste of stuff that fell in that middle, has been decimated. and yes, perhaps the change in editorship precipitated the shift toward Authentic Music as well. but that doesn’t excuse the fact that the mag is staffed by a bunch of people who ostensibly get paid to cover their beat, which is still popular music–yet the results are completely safe. (including the usher record.) honestly, i’d rather have a collection of ‘top five reasons we totally ran out of ideas, sorry guys’ lists than a 33-album rundown that could just be retitled ‘the top 33 records we got in the mail this year.’
and i’m sorry (i feel like i have to apologize in advance because i know that whenever i talk about how i’m kinda bored by the milquetoast nature of whatever is calling itself ‘indie’ these days i offend a lot of people even though i’m not really meaning to) but that whole death cab-to-ponytail run could have been programmed by any third-rate music blogger out there. (you know that i like both al green and ponytail, but come on.) and i guess that’s also part of what i’m wondering about this list: what sort of function does it serve if it’s going to do little more than mimeograph the opinions of people who don’t have expense accounts? are music bloggers the new critical stringers?
@Maura Johnston: Maybe, but not always. And let’s face it, the guitar is the most versatile instrument ever created. Hip-hop is necessarily someone rapping, correct? That means that the style of vocal delivery is similar, though put out there in many ways. That’s not a slam. It’s a definition of the genre.
I just think that “rock” being lumped together is a fools errand. It means that the Bunnygrunt and Hinder and My Bloody Valentine are part of the same genre. Those don’t even sound like the same types of music!
And your non-answer on indie R&B shows me that there’s a real problem out there for those types of artists. Sigh.
I can’t pretend to be anywhere near as well informed as you guys, but when has that ever stopped anyone from commenting on the internet?
Something I say a lot to explain my failure to secure good coverage for my artists is “Magazines cover two kinds of records: records the editors personally love, and records they feel they can’t ignore because they are/they expect them to be so popular.” I think this list pretty much perfectly reflects that: a group of young, indie-leaning (or at least the latter) writers voting for their personal favorites and the “oh, I have to mention [x]“s. There’s nothing that really approaches an objective “best” about it.
The sad part about that is that your mid-level major artists are the ones who really need to be able to say things like “Top 10 Blender Record of The Year” to justify their continued existence on their labels. Absent sales or critical plaudits, what does someone like a Ne-Yo have? For a Taylor Swift, or even for a Bon Iver, that is way, way less important as their fanbases/sales figures aren’t really going to be affected either way.
@Lucas Jensen: and i totally agree that indie is a huge huge tent, while modern R&B could not be more formulaic. I have been surprised for a while by how into it this site is, and how willing to go out of a limb to explain its INCREDIBLE IMPORTANCE. I defy you to turn on VH1 Soul and tell one song from another some way besides recognizing an artist’s voice/face. Impossible.
@DavidWatts: Are you really going to cite VH1 Soul as the barometer of what’s happening in the world of R&B?
Any tightly formatted distribution outlet is going to produces Xerox versions of the format. If I turn on my AAA station, I’m probably going to hear a female singer who sounds like Aimee Mann. If I turn on my modern rock station, I’ll probably hear someone who sounds like Audioslave (not sure, haven’t listened to those stations since all the bands sounded like Staind). You haven’t made a point.
@Lucas Jensen: Despite the sales and appreciation, “Ms. Independent” is a pretty weak song. I’d go with “Mad,” “Fade into the Background,” or “Lie to Me”
@Maura Johnston: But what if those are the records they really like? I think it’s pretty easy to be cynical about those, but I find very little commonality between Katy Perry, My Morning Jacket, or Bon Iver. Those weren’t just blog-popular records. They enjoyed a great deal of mainstream critical acceptance if not sales stature. Sure, bloggers liked them…I get that. But to lump them together under “indie,” which you are tacitly doing, is a little unfair, I think. Basically, “rock” and “indie” (much like my other hated term, “boomer”) has become a bugaboo for progressive-minded critics who, rightfully so, want to see a little edge and diversity to things like these big omnibus lists. But my original point is that it’s a little unfair to “indie rock” or whatever it’s called to lump all of these things together under one umbrella because they are so disparate in tone. I’m sorry, but hip-hop will almost always have somebody rapping over it. It is necessarily less diverse than rock solely because of the delivery of vocals, but understand that that’s not a criticism. I’m just saying that lumping these things together as blog rock is reductive and an easy way to make a straw man, but more a slam on which group (in this case, bloggers) finds these bands popular (and I must say that I wish for more Al Greens on the elbo.ws charts) than an actual slam on the music itself. Me, I don’t like the MMJ (and I’m a big fan) or Katy Perry or Jenny Lewis or Death Cab or Conor Oberst or Be Your Own Pet (who I abhor). I’m just saying that they are all pretty different musically except for the fact that some blogs and, oh yeah, tons of print and online magazines, like them. So what if a third-rate music blogger could have programmed it? The Blender editors also could have done it and did. It seems hardly out of character to me with what the magazine does.
The reason Blender could always be trusted for metal and R&B in the past was the quality of freelancers they had. I don’t notice a perceptible shift in editorial, to be honest, except they might be slightly more superficial than they once were, which is not saying much. It’s not exactly like I can cry into my PBR or Yuengling or whatever beer I’m supposed to be drinking about the Classic Blender Era. To me, Blender’s just being Blender. I have a feeling that we’re looking at one of the more diverse lists we’re gonna see.
I was probably being hard on poor R&B and hip-hop. I apologize. It came off like a facile generalization to counteract what I saw as facile generalization of lumping different-sounding records together. My bad. I hate that you can’t criticize hip-hop and R&B for same-ness (something that I regularly hear from fans) without looking like you’re some classic rock AOR guy who thinks that all good music stopped being made when the Van Zandts went down in that plane. I am not that guy, but I feel like criticizing those genres ends up making you look like that.
@DavidWatts: Absent sales or critical plaudits, what does someone like a Ne-Yo have? For a Taylor Swift, or even for a Bon Iver, that is way, way less important as their fanbases/sales figures aren’t really going to be affected either way.
What?
@Lucas Jensen: I don’t see an independent R&B artist can’t play in the same venue (or type of venue) as an indie rock artist. I’m sure Raphael Saadiq is playing (or has played) the local mid-sized venue, and Jill Scott used to do lounge nights before she got signed.
Just cause they’re signing in a lounge instead of playing at a bar doesn’t mean that there isn’t a path. Bilal’s on a stage somewhere, after all.
Lucas: the thing about the Ne-Yo album (and I apologize if I’m x-posting w/Maura) is that it does, very well, many of the things I like about pop and rock generally–specifically, he writes about adult relationships with real nuance and a great eye and ear for dynamics–not just musical (though his melodies have killed me from the word go), but in terms of how couples interact. “Mad” is a great example: he wants to bury the hatchet because he just wants a good night’s sleep already at least as much as because it’s the right thing to do. “So You Can Cry” is as much about being exasperated with a close friend as trying to help that friend through a bad patch. Most of the songs are like that–subtle, layered–without calling attention to themselves for being that way. (Elvis Costello is kind of a perennial example of the latter tendency, though I love Costello.) The songs got to me fairly quickly but the album just deepens and deepens for me the more I play it. And I think they do it in a way that much of the indie rock I like does too (and I’m not just saying that because the first thing my girlfriend said when I played her “So You Can Cry” was, “This sounds like Ben Gibbard.”) Anyway, sorry I was snippy.
@Michaelangelo Matos: Well, I will give it one more shot, but I swear I do not feel Miss Independent on the radio. Whatevs. I’ve been wrong before. Listen, I’m not an indie rock absolutist. God knows, as a publicist, I got soooo bored with all of it.
Here I am defending Blender and bloggers. Sheesh, I probably am wrong about everything.
(that was xxpost btw)
I don’t write about music professionally and I don’t make big end-of-year lists, except for mixes I force on my loved ones as holiday gifts filled with my favorite songs of the year. I wish I heard as much music as you all do but there’s not enough time in the day! If I had access to free music of all genres, I am sure my tastes would be far superior to what they are now.
Blender and Paste and all these other publications… they praise what they know and they’re scared of writing about the different and unknown. If Paste doesn’t feel it has enough knowledge and credit in the world of hip hop why should it bother including that on its list? I also don’t expect Blender to talk extensively about noise and other experimental genres–there’s Wire for that. However, I really wish these lists WERE more encompassing, as they would help people like me get into new music. I get sick of seeing the same records on every list!
Also, I kind of think this discussion leads to other points made about sociology and groupthink and publishing itself and all kinds of things. I’m interested to see where it goes.
@Halfwit: I hope you’re right. I would love to see more, for lack of a better term, “urban” artists performing at my local clubs!
@Lucas Jensen:
Try the remix. Stellar. Yes indeed.
@fabulousrobots: You’re kind of reiterating one of my original points which is let Blender be Blender and let Paste be Paste. Do I want to see Paste tackle Fennesz? Sure, but do I trust them to do it? Maybe. Having said that, the argument against what I’m saying would be that most people don’t have time for more than one magazine or two, so they let media put them in their own happy ruts.
@Halfwit: I think you have a good point about AAA, but is there really even supposed to be much diversity in modern rock? I think the format is looking for a very, very specific sound.
@Lucas Jensen: Yeah, the album is its own thing. I think it’s ingeniously programmed. First five tracks are the big obvious radio stuff to hook you in, with “Mad” (track 4) hinting at the more in-depth emotional-issue he’ll be dealing with. “Why Does She Stay” at track 6 turns the album inward, where it dwells till the final track, a big ol’ Hollywood finale that I love (and again, subtler than it looks at first: he gets his happy ending, and he’s unnerved by it). “Fade into the Background” and “Lie to Me” and “Back to What You Know” are amazing scenario songs, all nuanced, all familiar, all unique. Maura and I love Year of the Gentleman because it’s a capital-A Album, you know?
Do you think that personal listening history might have anything to do with this? It’s clear that Maura and Matos were exposed to and listened to a good amount of R&B growing up. My guess is that Lucas’s case is the opposite, and I think this is also true of a lot of music critics. It seems to me that most critics (particularly the type who go on to work at a place like Blender) came to the profession as rock fans, and even if they learn enough about R&B to be able to cover it in their critical capacity, they’re just dilettantes. They’ve learned what’s necessary for their job, but they lack a real understanding of the genre. Thus, when the time comes to write lists at the end of the year, there will be a lot of music they genuinely like as fans (rock), plus a few token picks from the other genres they were professionally obligated to cover.
@Lucas Jensen: Most definitely, the format is looking for a tightly defined sound. I was just responding to DavidWatt referring to VH1 Soul as a viable example of homogeneity in R&B.
Every genre has its fans, its dilettantes, and its detractors. I know people who listen to rap who would draw no distinction between Deerhoof, Go! Team, and Wolf Parade beyond “people yelping with noise”. If you’re on the outside, it’s just a mass. Punk = 3 chords and screaming. Country = nasal twanging and slide guitar. For someone in the scene, though, Fugazi is better than Anti-Flag, or Garth Brooks is better than Brad Paisley.
It’s totally fine if you don’t see the rewards in investing the time to determine the nuances, but it’s intellectually dishonest to deny that there are nuances and distinctions between the good and the bad. That’s where the rockist stereotype comes from: the same for R&B fans who impulsively change the station the moment they hear a guitar.
@Halfwit: I should just say “would draw no distinction” since I just pulled those three names off the top of my head.
I defy you to turn on VH1 Soul and tell one song from another some way besides recognizing an artist’s voice/face. Impossible.
listen to yourself.
@AL: Are you kidding me? I grew up listening to plenty of R&B and pop radio. I have a Gregory Abbott 45 for Chrissakes. I have written for Idolator pieces on Millie Jackson and Minnie Riperton (by proxy). Does that sound like someone who doesn’t care about R&B? If I find much of the modern R&B to be pretty objectionable, it doesn’t mean I don’t like some of it or care about it as a whole. I don’t deny what you’re saying about critics coming in from a rock perspective, but at what point is someone not an R&B or whatever genre dilettante? I mean, rock music is pretty broad. There’s tons I don’t know, and I’m more informed than a lot of people. What’s the test there?
@Halfwit: I get what you are saying here, but I am certainly not one of those people. And I know people in all camps, though I will say most of my rock friends also like hip-hop but that doesn’t usually cut vice versa.
I think the Portishead album got ignored because it’s painfully boring. Then again She & Him made it…
@Lax Danja House: I think that the Portishead album is good. I don’t mean that “I am of the opinion” that the album is good… I mean I’m honestly not 100% show.
It feels like one of those albums that, while made for the modern age, isn’t made for modern technology. It just doesn’t work on an ipod. It seems to require a more “solid” setup (a hi-fi system with a turntable, massive studio headphones, and a massive leather club chair) for me to fully “get” it.
@Halfwit: sure… sure
I know what you’re talking about, but I can’t act like I’m not guilty on this one. I mean, the red meat of my list is going to be pretty unashamedly punk-leaning-indie rock. However, that aside, I think that there aren’t that many major label sleepers because of two factors 1)The majors are trimming down on all fronts and 2)The rise of what you called “creative professional indie.” The first one is an obvious function of mathematics. The second one, for me anyways, has to do with day to day social stuff. If you’re a writer and have a set of aggressiveley tasteful friends, there’s certainly a good chance that your social circle isn’t going to necessarily be biased towards discussing the kind of big-label sleeper you’re talking about off the clock. However, there’s a good chance that out of 10 friends, 4 of them will have an opinion of The Walkmen record/Bon Ivor/Of Montreal. For instance, my friends and I have been obsessibe about the new Marnie Stern record, had it on at parties, etc. for 6-8 weeks now. That’s given me enough time to spin it, lose interest because of it’s flaws, reassess in light of other people’s comments/insights, unpack more of the thing, asses further, write 6-800 words sorting out my opionons on it, and arrive at the conclusion that it’s probably one of my 10 favorites of the year. Meanwhile, Invincible’s record came onto my radar, impressed me but didn’t hook me, then fell off because nothing was keeping it on the front burner of my brain. Granted, that’s a little bit of an indictment of me for being undisciplined about sitting through it and becoming an evangelist for the thing (It’s actually really good). However, in this climate, I think that it’s hard to discount the role of social contexts for maintaining and nurturing interest in a record well enough to place it on a top 10 or whatever at year end. Notice that Girl Talk is #2 on their list. While there is a qualitative side to that, I think the Girl Talk meme’s strength and how much mileage you can get out of him from a discussion (or partying) standpoint has a lot to do with how highly he placed. Same deal with Lil Wayne. If every time that fucking Lollipop song comes on you have the possibility of discussing how much better “A Milli” is, chances are he’s going to be taking up a lot more psychic real estate than something lesser known.
@AL: same here, Lucas. I’m actually not a big fan of rap or R&B outside of the blog-accepted (Ghost, Ne-yo, et al). I probably should’ve said “if ONE doesn’t want to take the time, etc. I’m guessing you knew what the site was like when you started writing, so I’m guessing you’re at least open to multiple kinds of music.
@Lucas Jensen: I think we’re actually kinda in the same boat here. The whole “New Jack Swing” era was kind of a golden age for hip-hop/R&B (the blend… I’m sure real rap-heads were PISSED). Especially since those days overlapped with the last days of the true monoculture (seriously, “Too Close” rocks ANY crowd at ANY party) makes it easy to dwell on the derivative stuff that makes up a lot of music today. But that’s all music, across all genres. Even within “indie rock” (whether it’s singer songwriter, beardo band, spazzy 80s retro, or just WTF) has it’s own rules and templates. I’m just saying that every genre produces someone fresh, and that shouldn’t be written off just because (s)he may be working within the same structure of a familiar form.
@Halfwit: I’ve got no problem with being derivative. I’m a Jesus and Mary Chain fan.
@Lucas Jensen: Credit where credit’s due… that’s funny.
Were we supposed to be talking about the nature of end-of-year lists?
This is the guy who said Girl Talk’s not a “real musician.” Now he claims “most modern country sounds EXACTLY the same, as does a lot of R&B.” He must know what the word “exactly” means. That didn’t stop him from capitalizing it. So: really? Exactly? There’s no difference whatsoever? Wow, why do they even bother releasing new music?
Come on. All this proves is that he doesn’t know what he’s talking about & there’s no reason to listen to anything he says. If you can’t tell the difference between Toby Keith & Miranda Lambert or Ne-Yo & Raphael Saadiq, that’s a problem with you, not them.
Uh, forget the first sentence. I confused Jensen with Gibson. Sorry. So there are TWO Idolator writers who are worthless.
Also, forgive my surliness. Just a little tired of this whole tired argument, versions of which have been going on since rock’s inception. Country music & R&B are no less authentic & diverse than rock. The end.
@Murk: Oh, yeah, I’m really frigging worthless. Notice I said MOST and A LOT. I never make EVERY statements there, but I challenge you to tell me there is anything approaching “rock” diversity in Modern Country or even R&B. I would love to hear it. My point is that lumping “rock” together is pretty easy to do, but is not a good argument. But you obviously can’t read. But, yeah, I’m worthless. When did I challenge R&B or Country’s authenticity? Yeah, I hate most of what I hear on Modern Country radio. And, yeah, I think it most of it kinda sounds the same. Remember that it’s all recorded in the same studios with the same producers and the same musicians in a genre not known for heterogeneity. Is it inauthentic? I don’t know. Do I find it musically relevant to me? Hell, no. But I’m not impugning Country Music, for Pete’s sake.
You know what I meant when I said EXACTLY, you jerk. You are not forgiven.
I love that “If you can’t tell the difference it’s your problem” argument. What a crock.
@Murk: Okay, you’re forgiven.
@Murk: And I agree with this. Really, I do.
Well, I think most indie rock sounds the same, but I don’t pretend I can’t tell the difference between No Age & Arcade Fire. You haven’t really explained why it’s a “crock” to say that the problem’s with your ears, not the music, since lots of people do not find that most country “kinda sounds the same.” And, geez, do I have to point out that rock is not a genre known for heterogeneity? Your point really boils down to: you don’t like country music. Fine. But who cares?
Exactly either means “exactly” or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t, why use it?
@AL: And how is it CLEAR that Maura and Matos listened to a LOT of it. Because they like Ne-Yo? That’s your criteria? I see nothing else here to indicate that statement. I’m sure it’s true, but I’m mystified as to where you got that about me. I grew up in the 80s with
Furthermore, my initial point was that I found Maura’s consternation with the “rock portion” of the Blender top 40 a mite facile, as she lumped together disparate sounding music loosely classified as “rock” because of its popularity with some bloggers. I hate the homogenization of these Best Of lists as much as the next guy, but I find that it’s easy to bemoan the picks if you lump Ponytail and Katy Perry together. And, to defend Maura here, I think it was more of the banality of it all that she was striking out against, though I think there are certainly sociological things to unpack in this discussion. I hate that I may have inadvertently painted myself into some sort of anti-hip-hop/anti-R&B guy. I just hate seeing “rock” besmirched again when it’s so loosely defined.
@AL: Now I look super-snippy. Sheesh. Sorry, AL.
I’m just not gonna talk anymore.
@Lucas Jensen: Oops! Re: Maura and Matos’ history with R&B, they seem to write about it a lot (in an historical life-experience context, not just contemporary stuff like Ne-Yo), you’re correct that there hasn’t been anything in this exchange that specifically points to that.
I was just making a guess about your history, I definitely didn’t mean any offense, as I am definitely part the group I mistakenly put you in.
@AL: Well, no, I think they write about it a lot, and I have a history with it, but it certainly dried up in college for me, right after the Jodeci/Shai/Boyz II Men years and have followed it for the last decade or so with some depth, but not like it was when I was growing. I loved that stuff when I was a kid, and certainly the classic stuff is my fave. The problem I see is that it is so segmented now for so much of the critical cognoscenti. When I was a kid, there was very little distinction made. At our Junior High dances they played George Harrison’s “I Got My Mind Set On You” back-to-back with the Gucci Crew II and Rob Base. Maybe my Junior High was weird. There was very little distinction made. Hell, I see that with a lot of kids today. I’ve been to a few high school proms recently with my wife (at the time) and it was amazing to watch all of kids dancing to Lil John and then Big and Rich right after another. Hmmm…maybe it wasn’t that lovey-dovey. There was some racial separation there, but it wasn’t too bad.
But, yeah, “indie rock”’s been my game and my job for the last ten years, so it’s what I know best. I just know, having been immersed in it for a long time, that the very act of lumping “rock” together is folly, as my rosters of artists were usually quite diverse in sound and yet all still classifiable as “rock.” I’m kind of exhausted with rockism and boomerism being held up as bugaboos, much as I’m exhausted with labels like this. It doesn’t really help anything, and it’s not going to keep these lists from descending into tokenism. Had I stuck to that particular point at the beginning without engaging in a tu quoque against R&B I’d be on much more solid footing now.
@Lucas Jensen: Stop digging. This is only getting worse.