Just produce, man. But that’s not nearly enough for his ego.

Stop torturing us, or find someone with hearing & pitch sing your songs.

I’m firmly in the, “His singing’s awful, but his energy kinda pulls it out for him.” crowd.

And also in the, “Either way, those big screens are pretty badass.” camp.

Uh, other than that? I got nothing. The album hits for me about as often as it misses, and don’t think it’s an ego trip (it’s pretty clearly the result of his personal life over the last year. His ego is independent of his music, of course). Yay for trying new things. Hopefully he’ll continue trying things that don’t sound that much like his first three records, or even necessarily, this one.

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen something like that on SNL before and it at least deserves a mention.

I give Kanye credit for the artistic risk, but if Fleet Foxes is “CSNoozY,” his new one is “808s and Napbreak.”

maybe the only way i will begin to appreciate lil wayne’s work is, coincidentally, the only way i can sit through dylan’s work: if somebody else covers it.

Tangential thought, but related to the idea of holding “professionals” to a higher standard – I see a lot of parallels between Kanye and Kevin Barnes in this regard. Looking for reward because they are ambitious and challenging, though its arguable whether either’s latest albums are actually any good.

And 808s is growing on me; I see it at least partly as a letter to his ex and his mom, and that’s sort of helping me understand it better. It’s not entirely an ego trip, but it is a trip.

I think the songs that are good are actually pretty moving. I give him a ton of credit for the album. It’s pretty close to art for arts sake and its all the better because of it.

It doesn’t bother me. And Maura (y’all know where my fangirl heart lays), I absolutely agree about the double standard and that many of the critics who call out some vocalists as “OMGSOBADLOLS” (especially based on small samplings of not-their-best TV performances) likely have more than a few unconventional voices populating their own (indie heavy?) collections. It strikes me as pretty much blind anti-commercial haterism at its unthoughtful worst.

@silkyjumbo: Um, Lil Wayne owned this year by just about every popular metric and you can slag him with an awful lot of complaints that would apply to Dylan as well.

He’s got all the soul, none of the science. All feeling without any virtuosity. That’s punk rock.

Moving back to the actual Dylan, part of his secret is that he’s written songs that mostly don’t require perfect on-key vocalizing. Another good example would be Stevie Wonder, who as several critics have noted has taught an entire generation of soul vocalists to overuse melisma — but Stevie sounds great when he does it, because he wrote songs that welcome it and that make ample use of his vocal range.

Point being, what’s made Kanye great heretofore is his ability to write great hip-hop songs that emphasize his gifts (production, an ear for hooks, a sense of well-wrought drama, a certain type of wordplay) and make the best of his shortcomings (his limited flow). As a recording, I’d say 808s and Heartbreak continues this tradition, because does all right by his limited singing talent, and the Autotune is (mostly) used cleverly and wisely. But live performance is another story. I guess I basically think 808s needs to remain a recording project, not a performance showcase.

yet i’m pretty sure that a black version of dylan wouldn’t be so revered.

if i’m mistaken, please let me know.

I think at this point we’ve fully examined the tantrums of a star who won’t forgive his girlfriend for not forgiving him, and can focus solely on the “LOL”ing – at least until he tacks on the but “b-b-but my mom!” track to the re-issue. This isn’t the special olympics, and we don’t have to commend his stunted emotions and shit voice just because he’s unabashed about sharing them.

Your larger points about acceptance of nonwhite vocal imperfections are totally valid and a solid counterargument. I’m just saying that, when push comes to shove, if the guy’s decided to sing, he’s got to be vaguely on-key; even Dylan, for all his imperfections, makes it to the ballpark pretty consistently. (And when Van Morrison does one of his occasional total-drunken-lout car crash performances, he is called on it.)

This has no bearing on my feeling about the album, which I half-love and half-admire; or on Kanye’s right to sing instead of rap. But I don’t think we’re damaging our Kanye Fan Club membership by calling bullshit when he has a bad night. That was not his finest hour.