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In this week’s AV Club, multi-instrumentalist Andrew Bird drops the controversial soundbite “When you think indie rock, you think more about haircuts and fashion than about music.” Somehow, this has yet to be picked up by outraged bloggers (maybe because they think he’s right? oooh snap), but it made me I wonder just what other tags and adjectives and bits of shorthand have been rendered free of any sort of music-related meaning by misuse, overuse, or just your normal wear and tear. Bird’s full quote after the jump, so you can think it over!
AVC: Do you ever get tired of always being tagged as “the guy who whistles,” “the guy who plays the violin,” “the guy who does loops,” and so forth?
AB: It’s pretty harmless. There’s lots of worse things that could be attached to your name. Since I started doing the New York Times thing, sometimes they say on the ad at the theater, “Multi-instrumentalist, cultural commentator.” I’m like, “No, that’s a bad expectation to start to develop.” I guess it’s better than “blogger,” which is such an ugly word. It’s always been such a pain to describe to anyone what I’m doing, so it might as well be a matter-of-fact thing like “violinist,” “whistler,” “multi-instrumentalist.” It’s all pretty harmless. If they said, like, “swing impresario” or something like that, then I would have an issue. Or “indie rock” is another one that gets me. I just never felt like I had anything to do with indie rock. When you think indie rock, you think more about haircuts and fashion than about music. The other one that made me cringe recently was, some journalist was trying to coin a term and he said “whistle-rock” or something like that. “You know, like Peter Bjorn And John!” “Oh God, no, don’t, you’re going to ruin everything!”
That quote sounds a lot less dismissive in context, haha! Anyway, I do agree with him about “indie,” although I am prone to use it in conjunction with the words “rock” and “pop.” But what about you? What is on your Forbidden Words Of Music list? (Also, I still think that “blogger” is an awful-sounding word, all hard consonants and nasal vowels. Blech. “Writer” sounds so much better, and as a bonus, it’s a hell of a lot less constraining.)
Andrew Bird [AV Club]
I don’t like the word “Twee”, just because I’ve been familiar with the term for a couple years now, yet still have no idea what it means and see it used in way too many contexts. Oh, and “wonky pop”.
“funky” to describe a certain type of british dance music is about the least descriptive and most uncreative genre name ever
“Indie” is one of those wonderful words that everybody knows the meaning of, yet no one can define. Bird is definatley indie. He sure as hell ain’t alternative.
I don’t like when “rock” is thrown around as a catch all phrase. I don’t think it is nessecary or meaningful to call everything that isn’t something else “rock”. At this point, I think “rock” may be more of definition of things that a music is not;” rock” would be music which has no identifying or distinguising characteristics. Which is, I suppose, usually how it is used.
Although it’s thankfully been dead for awhile, I’d have to vote for that old chestnut IDM, Intelligent Dance Music. I understand its original context, but it still always sounded pretentious, and now it just has the added bonus of sounding dated.
Oooh ooh! I forgot about “folktronica”. Or hell even “electronica” for that matter. Eww.
@natepatrin: Useless? Useless???
I’d be happy if the word angular was forever removed from people’s descriptions of post-punk guitars. Also, if the word post-punk was narrowed down to mean either ‘the Joy Division era’ or ‘the Franz Ferdinand era.’
As a genre label, indie definitely has it’s share of problems, as Matos enumerated in his “Modest Proposal” post a while back. Bird’s equation of “indie” with haircuts & fashion is just lazy, and if we want to get into it, rockist. Is there a genre of pop music that isn’t concerned with fashion? Does Bird want to be grouped into a genre that’s more about “the music, man? Should he write a column for RS?
“Modern Rock” – heh – how ’90s…
@daveknapik: “No, this isn’t like that stupid doof-doof 4/4 idiot dance music, this is intelligent.”
@natepatrin: “And also it’s on Warp Records!”
@AL: Is there a genre of pop music that isn’t concerned with fashion?
The much-maligned “jam band” scene, for one. Oh, but they’re not cool, so they don’t count, right?
@alexmuro: Ur, short for “popular”? As in, enjoyed by the widest segment of the populace, not a niche market, like free jazz or house?
@MayhemintheHood: I don’t think “post-rock” counts because, while it is a vague term in itself, I think that everyone has a pretty clear sense of what it refers to. Therefore, it is at least useful.
“Alternative”/”Alternative Rock” however… that is absolutely meaningless at this stage.
@KikoJones: Not so. I can spot a hippie at 30 paces, even from up wind. Try going to a jam band show in a jacket and tie, I have (college friends), and you see just how satorially sensitive the jam clan can be. Also, Dr. Seuss hats. They’re coming back.
@Halfwit: Yeah. Post-rock, like death metal and black metal and the like, is so niche that it’s hard to mistake it for anything else.
“Math rock”/”math metal” is one that annoys me, even though I do wind up using them on occasion (and there are people who do look for mathy qualities in music, so it is useful to a point).
Also the word “sounscape” needs to be put out to pasture.
@daveknapik: What about ‘indietronica?’
@K-Rex: The jam band audience surely has its own style aesthetic. But those dudes on stage are the least fashion-conscious musicians I’ve ever seen. (Not a dig or props, just fact.)
Somehow, this has yet to be picked up by outraged bloggers (maybe because they think he’s right? oooh snap)
maybe it’s because who cares
When you think indie rock, you think more about haircuts and fashion than about music.
Surely you’re not referring to the genre that gave the world D. Boon?
While we’re at it, “college rock” is a weird one. Most partisans of that would-be genre, even back in the day, seemed to either have graduated or failed out of that institution a long time ago.
I understand the whole idea that “indie rock” has morphed from a designation of label status to an identifiable sound (I mean, the Decemberists are on Capitol, but I can’t call them “alternative” just because they’re on a major label)
@MayhemintheHood: To fully understand the idea of “twee”, go onto to Wikipedia and type the words “Sarah Records”. Then pick a band on that roster (The Field Mice and Heavenly being the best known) and buy an album by them. That’s twee. Not many bands not on Sarah can be considered “twee”, but Beat Happening, Bis and (a more recent example) Los Campesinos! are pretty close.
@Halfwit: “Alternative” was meant to blend in the sound of bands coming out of college and early “Modern Rock” (and equally useless term) radio stations. Bands like The Cure, The Replacements, Jesus & Mary Chain, R.E.M. and whatever project the members of Bauhuas have configured themselves into at the moment. Then it branched off into different genres, like “alternative hip hop” which I believe meant in 1993 “rappers who aren’t gangsta rap but don’t rap about partying and that 50% of their fanbase consists mostly of white indie rock fans” and now means “acts who fit the previous description and don’t have a snowball’s chance in hell getting added to the rotation of a hip-hop formatted radio station, but are welcome with open arms on alternative radio. Having any sort of live instrumentation automatically puts a rap act in this category”.
@daveknapik: I don’t understand “folktronica” either, but I love Tunng, an English band who apparently are the forerunners of the genre. Apparently “folktronica” means you use seashells for percussion.
This is the video for their best song, “Bullets”, which doesn’t sound very “tronica” to me.
@DocStrange: While I recognize the origins, it seems that every rock band that exists after 1995 is “alternative.” Part of this may be legitimate, since it seems that every mainstream act is the bastard stepchild of the “Big 4″ of the original grunge scene. Still, when the objectively mainstream calls itself “alternative,” it just becomes silly.
Hell, AC/DC is “alternative rock,” now. No, you’re just “Rock,” dude.
What does alternative even mean?
Okay, any genre + revival. I mean, did it really every go away, but just wasn’t as prominent for a while?
ever* dur.
Oh, and “freak-folk” to describe acts like Neutral Milk Hotel or Joanna Newsom. Sure they’re freaks, but let’s be more subtle about it.
@Halfwit: The Modern Rock chart this week only has a few bands i’d actually consider to be “alternative”: Kings of Leon, Paramore (yeah, I guess), Airborne Toxic Event, Killers, Weezer, MGMT, Franz Ferdinand, Blue October, Shiny Toy Guns, Coldplay, The Ting Tings and The Gaslight Anthem. The remainder are either active rock acts (Mudvayne, Slipknot, Metallica) or bands that are simply “rock” acts (Anberlin, Incubus, The Offspring).
@Rock You Like An Iracane: Alternative means “on drugs”. See also: college, indie, post-(anything)
Just kidding. That was years ago. Now it means “suburban/subrural”. Anything in between indie and country without being hip hop.
@Halfwit: The best tag I’ve heard/read for AC-DC was “post-glam” (this being their early days). It helped me pinpoint why I like AC-DC so much more than I should like a metal or hard rock band. I think it would be a good exercise to re-classify most “metal” bands. Many of them make more sense, and are more enjoyable, as third rate Spiders From Mars clones than as second rate Black Sabbath wannabes.
@MayhemintheHood: Twee is a wonderful word, though it’s rarely used properly. Definitely worth looking up so you can use it in the proper context.
I also hate the term “indie rock,” but then I also hate the haircuts and fashion that go along with it, so I’ll put my vote in for “post-rock.” WTF?
@slowburn: I think at one point I looked it up, albeit only via a Wikipedia page(I know!), and that just confused me more. Basically, what I got out of it was it means pop music played by people wearing hoodies…or something.
@MayhemintheHood: “twee” means “cute”. Like Hello Kitty eating a snowcone.
Pop. What does it mean anyway?
the most meaning musical label is “everything.” as in, “oh, i listen to everything.”
really? thoughts on that last Carcass record? What about old Chris Isaak? How is your collection of late-70’s No Wave treating you?
drives me up the wall, brahmas.
“Twee” means “cute”. Like Hello Kitty eating a sno-cone. Or me frowning sheepishly if this is a doulble post. (Fingers tweely crossed)
@slowburn: Oh yeah, and “post-rock”…good call. I can’t believe I didn’t think of that one. That term makes no sense to me.
@alexmuro: It depends on who you ask.
@K-Rex: You should re-write the Wikipedia page, because that actually makes sense. Thank you.
“hipster”. Now and forever, the most useless term, especially in its primary, exclusive context as a pejorative.
@MayhemintheHood: Try this definition: [www.askoxford.com]
@Thierry: The only time i’ve ever heard any band ever considered “crust punk” was when Extreme Noise Terror – apparently one of the leading bands of the genre – collaborated with KLF in that fantastic rendition of “3AM Eternal” at the BRIT Awards. Why can’t America’s award shows let something that awesome/strange go on?
No one’s mentioned EMO yet. What’s up with that label? All it means to me is “mopey with eyeliner” – but there isn’t much substance in that.
Fueled By Ramen is the most worthless musical label. End of story.
@cheesebubble: that’s the new definition of “emo”. Old emo was “punk rock made by and for awkward nerds”, which explains Sunny Day Real Estate and Cap’n Jazz.
Hmm… ‘R&B’ was actually devised as a catch-all, meaning, basically, “black music”, which is sort of what ‘hip-hop’ has become as a musical label. At the same time, I sort of feel like most people can figure what they mean and what’s the difference, except trying to figure out what is left of R&B if divorced from hip-hop, is, at this point, sort of mind-boggling — Beyoncé tried to do it on the first disc of Sasha Fierce and things didn’t turn out so well — it was all sort of muddled, mid-tempo adult contemporary balladry.
@lempha: Note: this reading of Sasha Fierce originates here.
“Crust” is a term I’ve never really understood – even after reading the Wikipedia entry, I’d be hard-pressed to say what makes something “crust”or “crust punk” (or, at this point, “punk”).
Any genre + Core. Mall-Core, Death-Core, Jazz-Core, Etc….
Indie to describe a sound is pretty much stupid. It’s short for independent. Any act that’s not signed to a major label and does things on their own is independent. You can play classical harp and be…indie.
@lempha: Well, remember, back in the 80’s anything with a heavy bassline could get onto the R&B charts. Why, even “Owner of a Lonely Heart” by Yes, one of the whitest bands in existence, managed to hit #69 on the Billboard Hip Hop/R&B charts according to allmusic. [www.allmusic.com]
@DocStrange: By saying ‘R&B’ was devised to mean “black music”, I never meant to deny the existence of ‘blue-eyed soul’, and whatnot. But yeah, “Owner of a Lonely Heart” is… wow.