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Yesterday’s sad news that venerable Chicago indie Touch and Go had shuttered its distribution arm was treated in some circles with a measure of misguided relief, thanks to it being preceded by a rumor that the label would completely shut down. Make no mistake about it; it’s a big deal for the labels that use Touch and Go distribution, all of them fiercely loyal to Corey Rusk and his operation and now in search of distribution. Beyond that, it functions as a hard symbolic reminder of the poor state of the music industry, much less the economy. Idolator went to some of those affected and asked them what they thought about the situation.
Merge Records made the switch from Touch and Go to the Warner-affiliated Alternative Distribution Alliance a couple of years ago, but Mac McCaughan credits Corey Rusk and Co. with giving his own seminal label its humble beginnings:
Touch and Go basically allowed Merge to exist as something other than a singles label…we did our first full-length (the Superchunk Tossing Seeds comp) in 1992 because Corey agreed to take on Merge as a label under the Touch and Go umbrella. we’ve worked with Touch and Go since then — 16 years — and they are the most straight-up and ass-busting-for-music-they-love people we know.
Maggie Vail of Kill Rock Stars expressed similar thoughts on Touch and Go, the label’s Stateside distributor:
[T]he staff of Touch and Go are some of the most talented and competent people that I have worked with in my 15 years at Kill Rock Stars. I am extremely sad about the end of a great partnership.
Brian Causey of WARM Recordings was not only the proprietor of a T&G distributed label, but also a member of Man… Or Astro-Man?, a band that made its home on the Touch and Go label for a number of albums. He noted Rusk’s familial atmosphere was an attraction to bands:
As a band, it was great to be on T&G. They treated you like family. We had a show in Chicago and Corey had offered the T&G HQ/his loft for us to stay. We had driven all night from some other show and arrived way later than we had anticipated. It was like 4AM and Corey was actually waiting for us outside when we drove up. I was always honored to be including on the roster with so many of my favorite (and legendary) bands. Before we were on T&G, we used to tell people that we were from outer space – after we signed up with T&G, those people actually started believing us.
Dean Spunt of Post Perfect Medium showed similar devotion to Rusk:
I will say that it is very sad that Touch and Go is closing its distribution arm. Everything the indies learned we basically learned from Corey rusk and Touch and Go… I am deeply hurt that I won’t be able to work with them anymore and that independent music has changed forever.
But how important was Touch and Go distribution, particularly in the days when digital sales are presumably gaining on physical sales? It’s important to note that, despite its über-indie reputation, Touch and Go did use ADA as its primary distributor. Touch and Go acted as a bridge, in a way, between the major sales outlets that ADA provides and the mom-and-pop indie stores. Chris Scofield of Nail Distribution, a fellow indie distributor, was shocked like the labels and explained what Touch and Go offered:
I was totally caught off guard by the news today. Touch & Go forged the particular model of a P&D* indie label group, spawning other models in its wake, some which are still around (Secretly Canadian Distribution) and some that have gone (Matador and Sub Pop each attempted something similar in the 90’s), so its very sobering to see them shutting that aspect of their business down.
Touch & Go used the Warner-affiliated ADA to handle their upper-level accounts (i.e. chains, one-stops, Amazon etc). But what [T&G distributed labels] are missing now is the particular infrastucture T&G offered with their model, that being manufacturing and in-house distribution to tastemaker indies and boutique indie distributors such as Carrot Top. This was a good model for many of them as it allowed the latitude to have releases manufactured without up-front money, and having the costs recouped against sales. This can keep release schedules very fluid. It’s a good model when monitored correctly.
Not many people are willing to offer P&D deals anymore. It was more prevalent in the ’90s–again spawned by Touch & Go’s success as a label group. But some labels got upside-down and it just wasn’t a feasible model…As a distributor, we offer this service to select labels. It can be a very good service for the liquidity of a label.
James Kenler of Flameshovel said that the convenience of one experienced company handling distribution was invaluable, and that physical product is still very important:
T&G consolidated all our distribution worldwide under one roof, here in Chicago, run by people–it’s fair to sayz–we idolized. Physical distro remains key to this business even as digital distro is rapidly biting at its heels. We were hoping that T&G would be able to offer us a lot of experience in how to navigate such as tumultuous market. Physical product still has an important role in what we do. Even as more and more people choose to consume their music separate from its packaging and art, we remain tied to the tactile aestheticism of music in addition to its sonic qualities.
Vail concurred:
Touch and Go are our sales department. They handle direct sales and sales to distros, one stops, etc in the US and overseas as well as retail promotion for both our physical and digital product. Physical sales are extremely important to us as they are still the majority of our sales.
[The type of sales] depend entirely on the artist – some of our bands are only 15% digital all the way up to 60%. I think it mostly depends on the demographic that they appeal to, really. The only sales we do directly are through our mail order and those are relatively small in comparison. Sales in the past 10 years have definitely changed for us the same as everyone else. In general the trend being digital is up, CDs are down, vinyl is up.
Causey:
We’ve had a (P&D) Production & Distribution deal with T&G pretty much since the label’s inception. This means that T&G has advanced us certain manufacturing costs and allowed us to use their channels for manufacturing. Due to the high volume of them working with so many records from so many labels, the were able to have much lower costs in manufacturing which was beneficial to us. In addition, their distribution arm was a great combination of direct relationships with mom&pop/indies stores, direct sales, and the leverage to tap into larger distribution companies such as ADA. However, the greatest advantage of working with T&G was the enormous amount of trust that I had built with them over the last 13 years of working with them. Working with them made the music business a lot more enjoyable.
I just got off the phone with Corey from T&G – and our percentages have been roughly the same as theirs. Two years ago, CD sales were falling but digital sales were rising enough to balance things out. Unfortunately, this past year, CD sales have fallen dramatically and digital sales aren’t growing enough (or any) to compensate for the loss.
Spunt of Post Perfect Medium didn’t see going to ADA as much of a viable option, but remained hopeful about digital distribution:
There is no way I can go to ADA, nor would i want to go to them directly. Touch & Go was distributed by ADA so PPM was able to get those avenues as well. To only have distribution through ADA would actually be very UNbeneficial to a smaller label like mine since I do a lot of vinyl and limited edition runs.
I still sell more physical product than digital, but digital is good since it is just money…no costs, so it is good for the label and the bands.
What do distributors do, ultimately? What is the job of distribution? Gavin Frederick from Stickfigure Distribution stated that “a distributor is ultimately responsible for is making certain that product is where the demand is.” Scofield elaborates:
We are the conduit to stores and outlets to purchase released recordings on LP/CD/DVD by select labels in our network. Outlets typically being indie stores, the chain stores, the one-stops, and online stores. These days it can also mean digital distribution in many instances, but also some more off-the-beaten-path outlets, such as instrument shops, book stores, and other non-traditional avenues – something we have been sourcing more and more with
greater success.
Frederick stressed the ADA connection, and noted its potential effects on labels. He also begrudgingly saw an upside:
Best Buy did not order direct from Touch and Go; Best Buy ordered Touch and Go and related titles direct from ADA. The accounts that ordered from Touch and Go were accounts that did not have ADA accounts. Those direct retail accounts will suffer now because they have to pay higher prices from their other distributors until they can get an ADA account.
[Touch and Go distro's demise] thins the herd. One less distributor on the market, and two fewer big active labels. To be frank, it’s good for Stickfigure because there are A LOT of stores that don’t have ADA accounts that will probably be ordering Touch and Go titles from their other distributors (like Stickfigure) until they can get an ADA account. Sounds horrible but it does mean more potential business for us. Additionally, Touch and Go / Quarterstick not releasing new records means that there are BIG bands looking for a new label and that it’s easier for a smaller label to break through the clutter and make a name for itself.
Mike Turner works at Wuxtry Records and also runs Happy Happy Birthday To Me Records, whose wonderful Athens Popfest is sadly taking a year off due to, yep, the economy. He saw the closure as symptomatic of our greater economic largesse:
In general for the store it just means one less distributor to be able to get records from. There will be a short time where some records will be difficult to get until the labels distro’d by T&G get new distribution. Mainly the closing of T&G as a distributor will have more of an impact on the labels they work with. It’s a real bummer to see them go, but in these times, it’s understandable. Choke Distribution also closed recently, and I am sure a few more distros will close this year too. As more and more people download the less they come into stores to buy records; the fewer
folks who buy records from mom & pop stores the fewer orders distros get;
the fewer orders they get, the more distros will close or take on fewer labels or records. Things are coming around a bit with vinyl sales climbing higher and higher, and even cassettes are making a come back along with zines, but it really might be too late. the amount of stores left out there is really sad…the collapse of T&G as a distro says a
lot about the times we are in.
McCaughan was similarly downtrodden:
Corey Rusk is the most meticulous, cautious, thoughtful business person i know which is what makes this whole thing so unbelievable and such a bad portent for the rest of the independent music business — if a company that did everything the right way can’t survive in this environment (and the environment existed before the current worldwide financial disaster — the Bush economic legacy only piled on), then who can?
It’s a sad day for music, independent music and punk rock in particular, and the music business as we know it in the real world.
Disclosures abound: WARM Recordings has released one of my bands’ albums, so Touch and Go distributed it. Stickfigure Distribution distributes my current band’s/label’s albums as well. I have played Athens Popfest.
@Jack S: I have also dealt with indie labels for well over a decade, and I have seen some of the shadiest dealings of my life. I absolutely agree that indies can be bad. I’m not a freaking Kool-Aid drinker. I think that many of the old school big indies have been slow to adapt to the changing world of online publicity and have lost significant presence while upstarts have gained ground. I remember seeing a guy from an old guard indie argue with a fan about including digital downloads with vinyl at the Pitchfork Music Festival, and I couldn’t believe how out of touch he sounded.
And there are two sides to the Butthole Surfers story. You seem to side with them (and that’s quite an unpopular position), and I tend to think that the label got jobbed a bit, even if a judge ruled against them (to say that judges have made some ludicrous rulings in the music biz in their day is an understatement).
If you notice, I am quoting people in the article (so direct most of your ire to them), and I asked them some questions about the past, present, and future of their business models as it relates to physical distribution. I don’t think I injected much of myself into the piece and yet you seem to think it’s some puff piece designed to lionize Touch and Go. Does it read like that you? It’s dour to the max.
Listen, digital distro is fine and dandy, but I think that a lot of these companies are trying to offer richer consumer experiences than that. Buying something from iTunes et al. is convenient, but it’s also hollow to a generation of fans who grew up shopping in mail order catalogs and record stores. Why not just download stuff for free? That’s almost as easy.
You paint digital distro like some savior (Kool Aid, anyone?), but Brian Causey up there clearly states (and the numbers are starting to suggest this: [www.iht.com]) that “digital sales aren’t growing enough (or any) to compensate for the loss [of CD sales].”
I love digital distro for a lot of my own musical projects. I don’t want the upfront investment of manufacturing, and it allows me to turn around a release much faster.
Listen, Corey Rusk and Touch and Go failed at this distribution thing. Is that what you want to hear? No one is whitewashing that. Touch and Go deserves a mourning process because they’ve earned it via reputation (save, perhaps, for the Butthole Surfers incident), hard work, and taste. That their failure is symptomatic of greater economic problems seems hardly a leap-of-faith argument.
But thank God for digital distro, right?
[www.southern.com] About the lawsuit. The Butthole Surfers’ position that T&G should have been pumping up their catalog is completely ludicrous. Without them, they never would have been signed to Capitol to make that atrocity of a record that caused the resurgence in album sales.
Lucas, you clearly have drank some Kool Aid here if you could look at your posts objectively.
“Listen, digital distro is fine and dandy, but I think that a lot of these companies are trying to offer richer consumer experiences than that.”
True enough. But digital distro won’t go away. And most people don’t care anymore like it or not. There’s a reason local record store are folding.
How about this. You can technically download a lot for free, but sometimes it’s a pain in the ass. If I’m given the choice between hunting for “free” or paying for getting a digital download, I’ll pay. So will others.
“Listen, Corey Rusk and Touch and Go failed at this distribution thing. Is that what you want to hear?”
Basically, yes. But the attitude you have here is tons of people are blown away by this happening. Reality Check: Most folks out there could care less about indie labels in any way. So to paint Corey Rusk and Touch and Go as some massively sad story is to ignore two things: 1) the writing has been on the wall for years as far as distro models go and 2) there actually is something liberating about the cult of personality surrounding labels not being as strong as it once was.
And as far as people truly caring about this? I’d look at the comments attached to this entry as a solid example of how in the big picture the world has changed and people don’t look at indie distro as something that needs to be mourned.
“And there are two sides to the Butthole Surfers story. You seem to side with them (and that’s quite an unpopular position)…”
It’s an unpopular public discussion. But taken to it’s basics, Touch and Go simply looks greedy in that example. As I said before, if the back-catalog was so non-lucrative, then why fight to keep it?
I’d also question the Chicago Reader article’s objectivity as well. Chicago Reader has always had folks on staff who were in bands that Touch and Go dealt with.
Wow. Comments on a blog post are hardly the best arbiter of people’s caring about a story or not. And you really like that kool-aid metaphor don’t you? Listen, I only have the information available in the public sphere re: the Surfers but I do know that they went back and asked for 80% of catalog money, which is just ridiculous and, yes, greedy. You seem to think that this article is some kind of Pollyannish view of the indie distro world. I suggest you can’t read for comprehension. I stand by my work.
@Jack S: And do you think I don’t acknowledge the realities of digital distro and the struggles of indie retail anywhere in here? Astounding.
@anumberofnames: What?
Lucas, many thanks for writing this terrific article. As a music fan, I’m definitely mourning the loss of this institution.
I’m a little bit confused about this discussion of the Walthall v. Rusk case, because my recollection is that the issue (at least on appeal) was the enforceability (or specifically the term) of an oral/handshake license. I represent labels, and I always trump this one out to my label clients as a cautionary tale – but many established indies still like to do business on a handshake, which is very trusting and ultimately adventageous to the artist under the 7th Circuit ruling. I think a lot of it has to do with the culture of mutual trust in indie that originated with – among others – Touch and Go. It’s a sticky issue, but I’ve never felt T&G was greedy for trying to enforce an oral contract. Perhaps I don’t know the whole story?
The thing all of this hand-wringing ultimately ignores is despite the cult of personality surrounding Touch & Go it was and still is a business. It also ignores Corey Rusk’s businessman side showing it’s teeth when they went toe-to-toe with the Butthole Surfers over the rights their back catalog.
It’s heart-warming to hear stories about Corey Rusk welcoming a band at 4:00am into his loft to crash, but at the end of the day that one gesture means nothing when push-comes-to-shove and the owner decides you’re not financially viable. What’s the real difference between saying that’s a kind gesture and some major label guy putting you up in a hotel and taking you out to dinner? It’s all the same wooing/softening to get you to be a part of the larger group; a sales ploy no matter how you cut it.
Sorry to be crass, but blaming this on the Bush administration is pathetic as well. Bush was/is pathetic, but there are tons of bands/labels that have figured out how to navigate the digital distribution waters. How exactly does Bush & Co. factor into the fact that the record label/distribution model has been failing for years as digital distribution continues to grow? What if in some alternate universe Bush wasn’t President during this? Would folks blame the Gore/Clinton administration?
@Jack S: I’m not sure what your problem is here, but Mac’s quote actually says that the economic environment was bad and that the Bush administration piled on top of it. People didn’t discuss the Butthole Surfers situation because I didn’t ask. It wasn’t relevant to their situation now, though it did hurt them ten years ago. And DOES digital distro continue to grow? Some labels said yes and others said it was stagnant. So some bands/labels have been successful. GREAT. So many more haven’t. In fact, even in the good times of CD sales in the late 90s, most artists (I think it was around 96%) failed to even recoup and 40% of record sales came from 60 albums or so (out of 30k+). The fact that T&G survived thus far operating as they have is why they have built up this cult of personality, and to equate a label owner waiting up with a major label guy buying a hotel on an expense account is hardly tautological.
@John P Strohm: (continuing the aside of Walthall v. Rusk) From what I understand of the decision, there really was no oral contract in the first place. There was an agreement of a split of profits, but there was no agreement to the term. Rusk tried to argue that he had rights to the albums in perpetuity, and failing that, he was hoping that copyright law gave him a 35 year minimum (not maximum). The band said they never gave him rights for that long, and the judge agreed.
I never really understood why the band was raked over the coals for this. Sonic Youth sued SST so they could rerelease their records on Geffen, and nobody in the indie community blinks. The Butthole Surfers rerelease their music on their own label and they are shellac-ed (ha) for doing so. Obviously Touch and Go were a lot more sympathetic label than SST was.
(switching back to the main story) I’m very sorry to see T&G’s distribution go. I’m guessing they never fully recovered when Merge bypassed Touch and Go to deal with ADA directly. It’s a shame. Probably in the 90s and 00s their greater contribution to music was mostly behind the scenes, by P&Ding so many labels.
Well Lucas, you clearly have drank the Kool Aid. So not much else to say. But articles that paint indie labels as magically perfect places devoid of issues of power, control and money are just a tad shy of hero worship.
I do have great admiration for Ian MacKaye (Dischord) and Calvin Johnson (K Records). But I think there are a few of the folks who are genuine in what they do and honest about how they do it.
The Butthole Surfers situation is fascinating to me because it doesn’t show Touch and Go as the magical equitable label some would paint it to be.
And personally my deal is I’ve dealt with indie bands/labels for over two decades, and my ultimate conclusion is indies are not too much better than majors when the big picture is taken into account. Digital distribution truly evens out the playing field far more and eliminates these factional “cults of personality” that have formed around indie idols.
If you are truly into the music than CD sales should not mean anything. Would it be ideal if you could live off your music? Maybe. But there is a sense of entitlement that comes from indie rock that truly gets me-and others-ill nowadays.
Enjoy!
FYI also keep in mind that labels mean not much of anything to an indie band if you’re doing digital distribution. Which is what I think all burgeoning bands nowadays should embrace. Sell CDs and merch at shows on your own. But sell digital downloads on your own online as well.
@JustFrank: I don’t know. They were uncomfortable with a 50/50 profit split which was just bogus. If you read that article I linked to, Corey even offered them 70% but then it was too late. He had to destroy all of his merch and stop selling their catalog full stop. He always paid them money. They just thought it should have been more. SST screwed a lot of artists out of a lot of money. To my knowledge, Rusk has never been accused of anything like that except by the Butthole Surfers, who demanded upwards of 80% of the profits from catalog, which is just unheard of, particularly in an era where Rusk was still coming out of pocket for P&D. It’s not like he was doing nothing for them, as they suggested. The more I read on it, the more they look worse.
@Lucas Jensen: Potato, potahto, I guess. It’s all academic now. Again, from what I’ve read (including the Reader article and the court decision), it wasn’t that the parties were squabbling over the splits per se, but rather ownership and the term (or the lack of one). Touch and Go felt they owned the masters in perpetuity, the band disagreed. The band was seeking ownership of their recordings and wanted to license them to Touch and Go (in effect claiming their ownership of them).
Rusk offered the 70%, I think, when it became clear he was going to lose the case if some compromise wasn’t reached, but as acknowledged, it was too late.
I guess we disagree, but really I don’t think a band asserting ownership of their back catalog, some ten years after their initial release, is that horrible. The way they went about it WAS horrible, a lawsuit, but if Rusk wasn’t budging on the idea of licensing, then perhaps it was inevitable.
As far as Rusk being “out of pocket” for P&D, by all accounts Rusk is a shrew businessman. Touch and Go was making 30% off the top (their standard P&D cut) off every Arcade Fire and Spoon record sold there for a while. I think when Merge left the fold, that’s when the distribution arm began to buckle.
um, I meant to type Rusk is a shrewD businessman – not a small, mouse-like mammal.
If only they hadn’t lost all that money on the Supersystem albums.
Jack S, you are unfamiliar with the specifics of the Butthole Surfers case if you think Touch and Go were being greedy or did anything wrong at all.
Touch and Go paid for the making of the Butthole Surfers records and paid the Butthole Surfers 50 percent of the net profits of the titles, and this arrangement was understood to be permanent. This is an extraordinarily generous deal by industry standards, and there was never any suggestion that T&G had failed to pay anything the Butthole Surfers were owed, or that there were any accounting problems.
The Butthole Surfers unilaterally decided that they wanted more money from the label than they had agreed to, and Touch and Go said no. Touch and Go never asserted that they alone could make and sell these records — the Butthole Surfers could legally have had the same titles issued elsewhere from another label if that label was more to their liking — only that having paid to make the recordings, Touch and Go should be able to continue to sell them, having never done anything wrong.
The Butthole Surfers sued for exclusive ownership of those recordings and (in a case that disagrees with rulings in other circuit courts) were granted ownership, the only effect of which was that Touch and Go were required to stop making and selling Butthole Surfer records.
They basically sued for the right to get a worse deal elsewhere.
Anyone familiar with the Butthole Surfers’ band history will recognize a pattern of greed and belligerence that they will ultimately leave as their legacy. While I admired some of their thing early on, they were always ruthless and cut throat, both within the band and in their interactions with the rest of the community. I wrote them off years before this lawsuit bullshit.
It bothers me when people characterize Touch and Go as “just a business, like any other business.” I have dealt with thousands of labels and distributors, and for most of them that statement would be true, but not Touch and Go. Anybody suggesting as much is speaking from ignorance.
@JustFrank: Potato, potahto is not he case re: T&G and SST. SST didn’t pay their artists’ back royalties. Touch and Go did. The Butthole Surfers didn’t like their cut and though Rusk was making money off their major label success. The argument in the case was on the nature of the handshake deal, if it even existed. But it is completely different than SST not paying people anything.
And, in the Reader piece, they are arguing about splits, so I don’t understand.
“Anyone familiar with the Butthole Surfers’ band history will recognize a pattern of greed and belligerence that they will ultimately leave as their legacy.”
Nonsense.
Steve Albini, and your reputation for being a nice guy when you meet him in person and then ruthless and cut throat yourself is well known in the indie rock world. One second sharing beers with a band, the next second trashing them in some interview somewhere. Or better yet instinctively trashing any Chicago indie band that doesn’t conform to some bizarre set of arbitrary rules you-and only you-ever knows or even understands.
“They basically sued for the right to get a worse deal elsewhere.”
Great! It’s their choice. Who cares? And why does it bother you and others so much that they dared to be truly independent and sever ties? Do you trash talk Sonic Youth for suing SST?
‘It bothers me when people characterize Touch and Go as “just a business, like any other business.”‘
It bothers you because you are personally connected with them and have a vested interest in working with them and you are as far from a neutral party in any discussion on “Touhc and Go” and you know it.
But I will say I love the fact you-if this is indeed the Steve Albini-pop up to slam this discussion with your presence.
It pretty much fits into my equation that indie rock is a free and open world where you can do/say anything you want… Except say anything bad about indie rock at all…
Here’s my issue with indie rock mythos and hand-wringing ala this original post. Indie rock is mainly (1) white (2) male dominated and (3) based in punk. Nothing else. You don’t hear these discussions when it comes to local hip hop or even R&B/soul labels. Far from it.
So Steve, I’m sure you got some fun posting here. But I think your time is better served schmoozing with Chicago Reader and WBEZ staff so you can have a decent army of non-questioning followers in the press who just post what you say as gospel.
Shouldn’t someone like you who has gotten rich off of work you did for Nirvana and others have better things to do with your time? Or are you really this much of an OCD indie rock bully?
Tossing my Shellac 7″s was one of the best moments of my life.
@Jack S: So now the demise of Touch and Go is a racial and gender issue? This is a profile of a beloved indie label’s (mostly) demise and what it means for that sector of the business writ large. Nothing more and nothing less. It has ramifications for the indie music world, and I attempted to explore them. Should I not have covered it?
Idolator is not exactly indie rock town, man. Did you see that Ne-Yo was our #1 entry on the 80 ‘08 list?
And, one more time, SST did not pay back royalties. They owed SY money. Touch and Go kept the Buthole Surfers’ stuff in print, paying for P&D. The cases are not similar.
Great diss in the last line there. Was this an event? Did you invite people over? If that is one of the best moments in your life…sheesh. Hyperbole much? You really got Albini good!
Jack S. As as a consumer, I think this does matter. I still buy cds and vinyl, and it helps if there is distribution to make this available.
If anyone here has an agenda, you do. You transfer your manifest distaste for the indie business into a personal attack on Rusk. He helped put out a shitload of great music on as fair of terms as one could expect in the business, and he deserves recognition for that. Your attempt to poke holes in the post by arguing he wasn’t an angel is beside the point.
I love how you only pull out the race/gender card at the end after people call bullshit on your incoherent arguments. That is perhaps the most retarded attempt to gain moral high ground that I have seen in some time.
@mossdale: Agreed. And not all businesses are businesses like any other. They vary in how they choose to manufacture their products, treat their employees, their clientele, etc. I choose–if at all possible–to support those businesses whose values more closely reflect my own. Touch and Go was that kind of business for a lot of people.