Idolator

"2. Jam band fans are loyal."

Obviously you're not a golfer.

I've never seen the backstabbing of one's favorite band like Phish phans are capable of anywhere else. Everything else is dead on. :)

Go see King Sunny Adé if you have the chance, you won't regret it.

RV road trip!

Who do you think kept the Grateful Dead alive until "Touch Of Grey"?

...was this a good thing?

@MhS: Yes. Such a great great show.

@MhS: Yeah, that's at the top of my list of things to do @ Bonnarroo! That and eat a bear claw.

Hippies love percussion in all its forms.

In 2000, I went to the High Sierra Festival on a whim, and while I really wasn't familiar with any of the apparently popular jam bands that played, it's still my favorite festival going experience so far. So yeah... you might be on to something there.

@Ned Raggett:

No. Scientists in a room have determined that this was, in fact, not a good thing.

/Allen Woody-era Gov't Mule fan.

Getting jam band fans to dance at a concert is easy but getting indie hipsters to dance is like pulling teeth.

@Chris N.: unless its coming from a hardcore rap track

"Toumani Diabate, Amadou & Mariam, Femi Kuti and the Positive Force, Vieux Farka Touré, and the unstoppable King Sunny Adé & the African Beats."

This is enough to make Bonnaroo tolerable. Even if my theme song is Primal Scream's "Kill All Hippies". I saw Amadou and Mariam last year as well as Toumani Diabate, they were both awesome.

I just got a Lollapalooza ticket this morning, but I feel uneasy about it, as if there's not going to be much there for me this year. At least it's just down the road.

@moomintroll: Between all the great african music, all the great metal (Shadows Fall, High On Fire, Dillinger Escape Plan) and all the great R&B (Al Green, Janelle Monae, Erykah Badu, Rafael Saadiq), i think its a safe bet that Bonnaroo will be the summer festival to beat this year. No way Lolla is gonna come that strong in any of those areas.

I went to Bonnaroo in 2004 and 2005 and the population was at least 10:1 fratboys:decent people, and maybe a third of the decent people were the crunchy sort you'd expect at a three-day jam band festival.

I've had friends who've kept going and they say it's only getting worse; last year a pair of my friends who are a middle-aged gay couple kept getting yelled at for, well, being gay.

Also as an added downside if you get caught with illegal drugs in TN without having pre-purchased a tax stamp you'll get hit with a whopping tax bill in addition to any criminal proceedings. I met a guy my second year there who was looking at $25,000 in fines, even if he were somehow found not guilty.

tl;dr - bad scene, getting worse

@Christopher R. Weingarten: Yeah Lolla's looking decidedly lackluster so far, but there should be enough going on to make the $175, and the 15 minute train ride worth it.

@KinetiQ: yeah, growing up in virginia and seeing all the inexplicable love for jam bands going on around me birthed by the success of dave matthews band, i have to say the dark undercurrent of the jam band scene is the fact that a huge percentage of its fans these days are frat boys and sorority girls that aren't necessarily the most open or friendly of people. people tend to forget about this

@walkmasterflex: I've never seen stuff like that going on at the jam band shows/fests I've been to, but then again they were all in Northern California AND they were comprised of actual jam bands. Bonnaroo, may have a few acts like Citizen Cope, Ben Harper, Phish and Moe, but I don't think shows like that are indicative of "the jam band scene" or any dark underbelly that exists.

@MayhemintheHood: @walkmasterflex: The thought of a jam band dark underbelly is really funny to me for some reason.

I will totally get behind better relations between jambanders and indie fuxx0rs, but I really wish there was a midpoint between the two sensibilities. Yes, indie kids discard bands quickly, but the great unwashed mass of jamband fans seem to have so little discernment that crap like Widespread Panic can continue long past the point where any reasonable person would have stopped listening. At least our misguided obsessions die out lickity-split. And the main bands you see at festivals like this haven't really changed much in a good 10 years. If indie did that, we would still be primarily listening to, what, At the Drive-In, Lambchop, the Olivia Tremor Control, and Juliana Hatfield. All of which are great acts, don't get me wrong, but if essentially none of the music that's come out in the last decade was able to get any significant traction, I would certainly be disappointed.

@moomintroll: The only jam band dark underbelly I can think of is middle aged guys who decide to try Ketamine.

@Mike Barthel: Mars Volta is playing!

@Mike Barthel: The midpoint was Ryan Adams.

Btw, blindly clinging on to a band that may be way past its sell date, and dismissing another just because they are no longer the flavor of the day, are two sides of the same rotten coin. But truth be told I'd rather go w/the former than the latter. Jam band fans like what they like and say 'screw you' to the rest of us if we think they're uncool. Indie rockers could learn a little loyalty and self-determination.

@KikoJones: Sounds like jam band fans and metalheads have a lot in common...and I love them for that.

@Christopher R. Weingarten: I've always wondered... do the Mars Volta count as a jam band? I mean, don't get me wrong, I love them and all, but they do love to jam out. It's just a different kind of jamming out than "jam bands".

Maybe it's just in Austin, but um, OctoProj shows are, like, 4:20 central.

@Christopher R. Weingarten: Completely agreed. I've long admired Bonnaroo's catholic tastes, and I find that a lot of those fans (the Relix types) are way more open-minded than your average indie rock arm-folder.

@Lucas Jensen: Speaking of Relix, I've gotten a free Relix frisbee from every jamband fest I've been to...just a heads up to the folks going to Bonnaroo. A frickin free frisbee!

I think Relix closed. Something about giving too many free frisbees away.

@Mike Barthel: There is, it's called the regular concertgoers.

My fiancee is a Deadhead and we have these same conversations all the time. Even though each of us like something that the other can't stomach, we do meet in the middle (which for us is anything 80s and British), and his open-mindedness makes him one of the best people to take to shows. For a time he got Relix, and I was always amazed at how far-ranging the coverage was for a lil hippie mag. On a side note, dudes who like the the exact same music that I like are usually terrible boyfriends. Sometime, I will write an essay about why hippies are better boyfriends than indie dudes. I should know, I'm marrying one.

@MayhemintheHood:

You mean besides an aversion to bathing regularly?

@spankyjoe: See? I think the line is drawn at Subaru Outbacks though.

@Sara Sherr: Awesome. So, you guys are coming to bonnaroo I take it?

One of the reasons why we are getting married is that he does not force me to camp at music festivals. Or any place. But if we did go to Bonnaroo, we'd find a lot of music we agree on. My only aversion is to the outdoors and outdoor plumbing, etc.

@MayhemintheHood:

I won't argue that point, but I bet there are some Hydra Head devotees that will fight you to the death to prove that Forresters are kvlt.

Those guys will then be beaten to death with farm implements from the dudes in Wolves in the Throne Room.

@MayhemintheHood: ann coulter is a deadhead. that's all i'm saying

@walkmasterflex: And so is Pres. Obama (well, sort of). What's your point?

@spankyjoe: Ahhhh, Hydra Head. In a perfect world, Big Business would be signed elsewhere, and all of their former SxE bands would've never started smoking pot.

@KikoJones: THERE IS A DARK UNDERBELLY

@Sara Sherr: It isn't just Relix. Jambase.com covers a pretty broad range too.

Working at First Avenue in Minneapolis is what made me realize how open-eared jam-fans often are. A couple times the DJs before jam shows (the DJs pretty much uniformly hated hippies, as did most of the very punk-identified staff of the time, late '90s), would throw on music that didn't fit the sensibility much, and the crowd would eat it up.

That's really down to the Dead--so many different strands of music in what they did, and fans began following those strands as well. They're a fantastic foundation band, the way the Beatles or Prince are--you can go in so many directions from them.

@MayhemintheHood:

All things considered, I have to be kind of OK with Hydra Head, at least on a strictly musical basis. Once I moved to Boston, I learned about Isis, and through them I wouldn't have learned how much I like Neurosis, Jesu, Zozobra, Boris, Agoraphobic Nosebleed, et al. That label, much as I malign the scenesterism associated with it, got me back into heavy and aggressive music again, after a college dalliance with more jammy music.

Then again, I've introduced several devotees of jam bands to Jesu and Boris with good results. Who knew?

[/Seeing Big Business with Tweak Bird soon, along with Opeth, Mastodon, Kylesa, Intronaut, the Melvins, and, yes, Isis.]

@Michaelangelo Matos: I always like the idea of the Dead better than actually listening to their music, and believe me, I've tried. In general, these days, I'm the least open to jammy things, at least when it comes to rock music.

@DJorn:

From a business standpoint, I feel like the limited-run vinyl choice is somewhat defensible. In the age of ridiculously-priced CDs, the colored vinyl, big gatefold sleeves, and big art actually give you something for your dollar. Unfortunately, those things cost extra money, which means that if a label's going to make sure they recoup their investment, they have to charge more and print less. This isn't to say that the move doesn't smack of opportunism as well, but given the big secondary market for these releases on eBay, Hydra Head could probably charge even more than they already do.

Or, they could print more, try and get a bigger volume discount at the cutter's, and sell for a lower price, but that's risky. Easier to keep your vinyl releases' statuses as object d'art. Metal fans (like myself) are kind of suckers for those things, anyway, as you say.

(It's also worth finding out if there's an independent record store in your neighborhood - EveryDay Music in Portland, OR, for example - chances are, they'll probably get a copy or two, and the prices, while still probably higher than original sales prices, will be better than on the eBays. I don't live in Portland, but every time I visit, I always manage to snag a few releases that I missed during the internet release cycle).

/Ugh, I'm the one that dragged Hydra Head into this in the first place. How did this happen?

@Mike Barthel:

The Idolator Blog: Where logical discussions are had without people getting called "fuckstick."

i honestly never knew anyone had a problem with hydra head until i read this article

@walkmasterflex: The only problem I have with Hydra Head is that they press really limited quantities of all their vinyl releases, press them on stupid coloured vinyl and charge way too much for them. They're always sold out right away and they immediately turn up on eBay for 10x the original price. Metal labels in general are the worst offenders at exploiting vinyl fans to create instant collectibles.

@Michaelangelo Matos: I so, so agree with you about the Dead. Through my brief, secretive flirtation with Deadheaddom in early high school, I discovered the Band (the Dead covered "The Weight" on some live thing I had), some bluegrass, Otis Redding, other SF stuff...

@spankyjoe: I understand that vinyl is both expensive and a risky investment to produce, but considering how many of Hydra's (and others', they're not the only offenders; Relapse springs to mind) releases sell out so quickly, the demand is obviously there for a larger run, which would result in better prices for them from the plant, which they can just pocket or pass on to the bands, for all I care. I don't mind their catalog prices as much as the lack of availability. It's more a sour grapes thing on my part because I don't have, say, the first Jesu record on vinyl and I don't want to pay $50 for it on GEMM.

I certainly support paying a few extra bucks for attractive packaging and a 180g press. However, there's one indulgence I can't stand, and you won't convince me otherwise: coloured vinyl ALWAYS produces lower sound quality. Translucent is worse than opaque, but anything other than black is a compromise. And seeing as most vinyl fanatics prefer the sound of our chosen medium, why spend more to make it worse?

What were we talking about again?

I still don't understand why fratboys like jam bands in the first place.

@DJorn:

I forget. And I hear you on missing out on the first Jesu record. I have Broadrick's blog on my RSS reader now just to avoid similar mishaps.

What's the explanation for the lower sound fidelity with colored/translucent vinyl? Does the addition of dyes/coloring agents/what have you yield softer or more easily deformed discs or something? I don't doubt your assertion, but I've never had the opportunity to A/B a set of discs. I'm just happy vinyl physically presents a barrier to brickwall compression during mastering, so anything after that is gravy.

Crap, now I feel bad for having gone out and found a clear translucent copy of Superunknown on the eBays. And I was so happy I finally had a version of "Like Suicide" that wouldn't develop a fatal skip because it was on the outside edge of a CD, too.

i am now and will continue to argue the fact that "indie rock"(is it really indie if its so pop/mainstreem?) is eroding culture similar to the way disco did to legit 60's and 70's rock. please just start respecting musical chops, substance and genuine good people, and leave your shallow, hot or not bull shit at the door. you suck and your culture sucks and jambands and improvisational rock will always reign supreme. even lou reed hates hipsters. fuck you. peace and love

oh yeah coke and pharms are not condones in the jamband scene like they are with hipster indie rockers. we like to stay natural, and healthy.