Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair - Idolator Comments

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

blobby — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 18:53:33 EDT

@Falconfire: Another nice thing about the internet is that you don't need "evidence" or "facts" to back up your arbitrary, made-up assertions.

blobby

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

Falconfire — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 13:16:00 EST

@janine: You cant? Im sure half the posters here are paid BY Clive.

Thats the nice thing about the internet, you dont know who is legit, and who is make 10 bucks a hour to make a old hack who probably has his blood changed every day to stay alive feel better about how poorly his industry has been run into the ground by him.

Falconfire

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

Cell9song — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 10:10:52 EST

Once again a sure sign of just how obsolete the record industry has become. Clive Davis is the epitome of why the music business has become an obsolete plodding dinosaur.

Yes Clive, let's continue to gobble that shiite you and your ilk have been jamming down our throats for years. All one needs to do is listen to the current crop of best selling forgettable pop/R&B to understand why greedy scumbags like Davis must go.

Cell9song

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

myersrum — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 19:34:21 EST

My December is Clarkson's first "artistic" album. Properly promoted it would have yielded aprox 3 top ten singles and sold about 2 million. But it's not a pop record the caliber of Breakaway and that pissed of Clive. He sees her as a $$$ goldmine.
She's 25.. you really dont know who shes the second coming of. She might just be better than all those people. The biggest myth is that she's not a good songwriter. She wrote half of Breakaway including 3 of the hits.

Personlally I think she's smart. Another huge pop album and she might have been reaching the end of the line. Pop music doesnt let the same people stay on top forever.

myersrum

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

janine — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:22:13 EST

Lest we all forget, Mariah Carey's crazy painted on abs has been co-writing successfully for decades. Just sayin'...

Another random thought, I can't believe that on the internet in 2008, so many people would line up to argue in favor of the intelligence of music executives. I don't know if you've noticed, but they're not right all of the time every time.

janine

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

radio1 — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:03:01 EST

Well, Davis is right.

Sinatra, Holiday and Elvis did not need to write their own songs, because they and their management were such excellent judges of songwriter's material.

No one has a super-duper career as a singer/vocalist and then after some years of success decides, "Hey, I am going to write my songs now..." Nor do they become just as or more successful as a singer/songwriter.

It's great that Clarkson wanted to be independent and she'd written her song on her last album. But she wasn't kidding herself into think she was going to be second coming of Joni Mitchell, Carole King or even Norah Jones...

radio1

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

Harvey Birdman — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:41:54 EST

There's also the issue of artists receiving more money with a writing credit. Great performers don't pull in a steady stream of income off of old hits like the writers do.

Harvey Birdman

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

The Illiterate — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:11:30 EST

Can't we do away with the canard that artists can only "express themselves" if they write their own material? Billie Holiday chose her material and shaped her performances according to her own vision, and expressed herself far more vividly through other people's material than she probably would have done if she wrote her own. If you're a lousy songwriter, but still insist on performing your own material, the only thing you're going to "express" is your lack of talent (and lack of judgment).

The Illiterate

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

Mike Barthel — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 14:02:09 EST

@dhochbaum: I don't want to bring up Kolmar and Melamid here, but most of the time when someone tries to get a hit, it doesn't work. We use the term "manufactured pop" but at the end of the day, writing a pop song is an art, not a craft, and you have to give the creatives--which includes the professional songwriters and the producers--the room to breathe. Great pop music almost never comes from artists, songwriters, or producers doing what the label tells them.

Mike Barthel

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

janine — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:58:49 EST

A corrolary to the "if you can write big hits..." rule should be, "if you can recognize and/or give me good songs..." Weren't they giving her Lindsay Lohan's leavings?

And music industry success is so fickle, even geniuses have losing batting averages. For every Alicia Keys, there's 20 artists on BMG I'll never heard of. Let's just admit it's a crap shoot.

janine

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

dhochbaum — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:28:04 EST

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one, Mike. Clive Davis' job is to maximize profit, and at this point, even if you're a huge star, if you don't have a smash hit, your record is going to lose money. He shouldn't be accepting poorer-selling albums in the name of 'art' (nor do I think many of us feel Kelly Clarkson's new album had significantly more artistic merit than had it been written completely by professional songwriters). The simple fact is that if you don't have at the very least one really good single, your album should not be released - and that's why even 50 Cent's album got pushed back. The talent should realize that they are employees of the label, and be doing everything that they can to make their albums the best they can, even if it means sacrificing their 'artistic integrity'. That's what being on a major label is about. If they felt otherwise, then they should not have signed with the label in the first place - there are plenty of smaller labels that are happy to let artists follow their creative vision.

dhochbaum

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

queensissy — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 13:26:44 EST

Billie Holiday did co-write "God Bless the Child," but I suppose I'm splitting hairs.

queensissy

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

SnotFare — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 12:57:59 EST

@ Dick Malone, isn't he the same guy that signed Alicia Keys, he knows his shit.

SnotFare

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

Mike Barthel — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 12:50:51 EST

But what Clive considers a "good" song is apparently a song that can become a hit in the perpetual 1985 twilight in which he makes his decisions. Clive Davis is maybe the last person on earth who I'd trust to tell me if a song is good. And it's not that if YOU can write a song as good as a professional--it's if you in collaboration with a professional can write a better song for you as a performer than the professional alone could.

Mike Barthel

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

gregcoff — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 12:41:05 EST

I think you're misrepresenting Ol' Clivey a little bit here. Elsewhere in that article, he says something along the lines of "if you can write songs that are as good as or better than the ones being written by professional songwriters, great. If you can't, don't."

While it's not what most aspiring pop artists want to hear, I think it's a pretty fair statement. I don't think Clive would have minded Kelly Clarkson writing more of her own material had it yielded any hits (which, let's face it, it pretty much didn't, under-promotion or no). Nor would he have minded if Kelly Clarkson was a different type of artist...AKA someone whose perspective is so distinct that her writing her own material was essential to her appeal.

But let's face it, Kelly Clarkson is a pop star. And however you slice it, a pop star without a hit is not a good thing.

gregcoff

Once Again, Clive Davis Learns the Wrong Lesson From the Kelly Clarkson Affair

Ruf — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 11:03:22 EST

I read an article about a month ago, here is a little excerpt:

"iTunes and Fox are committed to presenting contestants in a fair and balanced manner online and on-air," the site says. "For this reason, sales performances from American Idol contestants from the current season will not be reflected in the iTunes charts."

I know that yesterday I saw Jason Castro's version of "Hallelujah" ranked in at #94 and today it disappeared, did someone at iTunes mess up?

Ruf