Every new cycle of the 'movement' (and this is the third time it's gone around in the last 40 years) has its power ballads, its torch songs, its anthems. Venture to say that Portishead 'The Rip' will have a place in that pantheon. Furthermore, that it will be placed kicking and screaming next to Renaissance 'Ashes are Burning' and This Mortal Coil 'Song to the Siren', like it or not (and yes, TMC was really an 'undercover' prog project!)

So, you ask, did Portishead created a prog album? Weren't they headed in the Radiohead post-post-rock direction, trip-hop roots not withstanding? Well, won't go as far as calling the entire album an exercise in unusual time sigs, but it sure has a lot of it to be purely accidental. They are referencing something in the genre, and want to know what that is. Could it be just Talk Talk (wink wink)?

So is Beth Gibbons really just channeling Annie Haslam? or Elizabeth Fraser? No, don't think so. But she's definitely keeping the prog chanteuse torch alit.

[littlelicker.com]

LittleLicker

As I said before, don't make up things to make yourself look smarter.

djp

+ Watch video

EnsignMilkshake

(note: ned, i've conveniently used "childish" above so that you can use it for your next lame comment. or "cherry-picking," both are pretty good)

chim_richalds

Ned Raggett

BOO

djp

mackro

...and you're the one unable to detect a dense fog of sarcasm.

chim_richalds

Hey, you're the one calling yourself ignorant.

Ned Raggett

At 1:45, the guitar is playing a flat 7th, then a 5th, then a 7th, then back to a 5th, all of which are pretty standard notes when looking at building chords.

I don't really care that you don't like it but don't make up things to make yourself look smarter.

djp

We Carry On is a perfect example -- you have a bunch of different instruments that aren't even close to the same pitch/key (which is obviously the goal, and that's fine). The intro synth isn't even in key with itself. When something is that far out of key with the other instruments, you end up with notes that are well out of the "twelve-tone formula" and sure as hell leaves the song without a "tonal center." Hence, atonal.

If you disagree, please tell me what the tonal center of We Carry On is, specifically when the guitar comes in at 1:45.

It's fine if you like it, but it's atonal, and I happen to think it doesn't work. Actually, it makes my ears hurt, and every time you play it, an angel dies.

EnsignMilkshake

chim_richalds

If you're going to throw around a real music term to bolster your argument, you should at least have some understanding of what the term means if you don't want to get called out (and that goes for the "literally thousands of people" you invoke, whether they're being positive or negative).

djp

seriously though, if you collected some of the most ridiculous stuff from above - reveals itself on the 21st listen; gut-churning, so full of ugly juxtapositions and audio disconnections; the uncertainty of the finger-picking underscores the themes of the song - you have the makings of a hilarious fake review from the onion mocking the too-cool-for-school set for the pride they take in listening to "difficult" music.

chim_richalds

slowburn

Great explanation. It's either about that or heroin, I can't tell for sure. Or maybe the fragility of white horses. I can't wait for their next album, where they write songs about confidence and practicing and not being weird for the sake of being weird.

And don't put me in that camp -- Yngwie really is just terrible. Noisy and dirty is great... I'll take Hendrix over Malmstein or Vai any day of the week.

EnsignMilkshake

Dickdogfood

there you go - that's the cliffs notes explanation. did that do it for you? i didn't think so. yeah, yeah, i know - Yngwie could have played finger-picking that was "fragile or whatever" but without MISSING NOTES. great, i know, cool - let's never hang out - bye.

westartedthis

EnsignMilkshake

Ned Raggett

brasstax

mackro

@Dickdogfood: "Gut-churning" isn't usually a good thing... unless you're into eating dog food, and... uh... other stuff, I guess.

Seriously, as for the off notes, I don't know how a guitar performance where someone screws it that badly gets any praise at all, or even released. Well, actually, we know how it gets released... put the right name on it. But if José González played his guitar like that, would you be raving about it, or would it be the end of his career?

Shouldn't be playing that badly live, let alone on an album.

I don't know what the Portisheads would be doing today if this had been their debut instead of Dummy, but they certainly wouldn't be giving guitar lessons...

EnsignMilkshake

Dickdogfood

Dickdogfood

serious question: is "gut-churning, so full of ugly juxtapositions and audio disconnections" supposed to be a good thing? i literally can't tell.

[img.sparknotes.com]

Dickdogfood

djp

The people calling this album "atonal" should learn what the word means before throwing it around. There's nothing atonal about this album at all.

djp

[en.wikipedia.org]

Even "Machine Gun" isn't atonal and most of the song is an extended rhythm track!

djp

some of you guys CAN'T be for real.

westartedthis

Dickdogfood

Dickdogfood

not to mention the others who dismissively characterized early portishead as "scratches and plodding rap beats" or claimed they didn't like portishead until this album.

chim_richalds

Ned Raggett

@EnsignMilkshake: "wannabe elite followers" -- Thanks for the laugh, man.

People can like different things. I found Third to be evocative of a lot of other types of music (I agree with whoever said it wasn't super-original, and I don't think that's a bad thing at all) that I have grown to like, and I love the spooky, super-urban undercurrents of it. Those of you who don't like it can just say you don't like it without getting all, y'know, aggressive about how cool you are anyway.

slowburn

mackro

mackro

Your ideas are not intriguing -- neither are you, really -- and I do not wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

@chim_richalds: it's just funny to read people heaping excessive praise on something so atonal and obtuse

Wacky fun time, yes.

resorting to dismissing dummy as dinner party music only shows that you're trying way too hard

Words in one's mouth are hard to put, really. (As someone who loved Dummy since its release -- and still does, and I'm sure that's the case with nearly everyone on this thread who has been expressing praise for Third -- you are mistaking loving this album for rejecting everything else. And that's a foolish mistake to make.)

Ned Raggett

and that's the thing. you can get all defensive (unnecessary because you're in the majority) but it's just funny to read people heaping excessive praise on something so atonal and obtuse.

i get it: you're stunningly open-minded and, dare i say it, hip for liking difficult, weird-for-the-sake-of-being-weird music.

but resorting to dismissing dummy as dinner party music only shows that you're trying way too hard.

chim_richalds

That said, this blows. And the only reason anyone is arguing with me is because you're all wannabe elite followers, afraid to say that some of our favorite musicians made something that isn't just disappointing, but is affirmatively bad.

But hey, there's no accounting for taste. I'm happy, and I want all of you to be happy too. Enjoy. Don't get upset. Be happy. I love you all. really. Seriously, everything is cool. Be cool. Let's all get along. I didn't mean it when I called you a follower, I was just, you know, getting intense, like people tend to do on the internets. I'll even listen to the album again. With an open mind. So we cool? Friends? Sorry if this bothered anyone, really, just trying to keep the discussion lively.

Third sucks donkey balls.

EnsignMilkshake

mackro

Nicolars

EnsignMilkshake

An understatement.

Ned Raggett

mackro

They're still making boatloads of money releasing it, so it obviously isn't their problem.

And most people don't seem to mind looking at the Emperor's bare ass, so it isn't your problem either. Kudos to the tailor.

EnsignMilkshake

Personally, I can't put Third down and would suggest that you actually listen to it all the way through a couple of times before you continue belly-aching.

slowburn

Seriously, years go by between finding albums I like as much as this one, and I'm just sorry you were expecting something entirely different (and boring).

brasstax

Ned Raggett

EnsignMilkshake

brasstax

This is the purest example in recent memory of the Emperor being tone-deaf -- and you're all afraid to admit that in a time where music is generally disappointing and a great Portishead album would be a God-send, this is atrocious. I'm still waiting for them to say they're kidding.

Let's keep the criticism simple -- the guitar performance on "The Rip" misses notes and the guitar is out of tune. HE MISSES NOTES. The performance is what one might expect from a 12 year-old guitar student who just learned how to fingerpick. Tune the f'n guitar and hit your notes, damnit, and then we can talk. Or is an unsteady, out-of-tune performance a refreshing breath of fresh air after decades of musicians recording multiple takes of a song until they end up playing the intended notes?

Put on the self-titled or Dummy, and tell yourself this is just as good. Because it is, isn't it? Between "The Rip" and "Wandering Star," it's a coin toss, right? Who needs tight, beautifully programmed beats and perfectly orchestrated, in-key performances when you can just goof around and people will worship anything you release regardless?

Prince isn't talented enough to fingerpick this well... someone should teach him the meaning of innovation.

[www.proteinpower.com]

EnsignMilkshake

the record sounds like a bunch of half-formed song sketches and snippets of jams. no cohesion, little substance, and after an eleven-year wait it's a massive disappointment.

yet from the get-go, it was all too easy to predict that it would get praised for its "obtuse brilliance" and "haunting dissonance" and "expertly crafted paranoia" even though it is downright boring.

suggesting that this supposedly "arresting" record doesn't fully reveal itself until the 21st listen? seriously? why not just come out and say that you've finally convinced yourself to like a shitty record?

chim_richalds

Q trying to rile up Phead fans to get hits ya think?

mackro

Ned Raggett

"Third will probably be more admired than listened to..."

chim_richalds

But that's what I like about it! It's as dark and weird as I hoped!

Ned Raggett

Michaelangelo Matos

mackro

Lucas Jensen

As for the album, given the wary advance hype, I must say it's been a pleasant surprise -- it's not nearly as dark or weird as I feared, and I find it totally enveloping.

Chris Molanphy

Dickdogfood

Kate Richardson